To be shocked that in the 21st century there's still a staggering amount of women who rely entirely on their husbands?

[EllieRosesMammy]

I see it far too often on MN, women saying their husbands have been cheating on them for years or treating them absolutely terribly, but saying they can't leave because they are entirely financially dependent on their husbands.

Is it just me who finds this mad in 2022? Or is it still normal for men to be 100% the provider of the household?

I just couldn't imagine being stuck in a rubbish situation simply because of money

I am absolutely in no way slating stay at home mums, or house wives here either. I just believe all women should be self sufficient enough that if they're in a bad situation they can walk away

TopGub - yesterday a poster made this comment -

"(Disclaimer- I work) But SAHMs have more control of their kids lives, every single day and moment, picking them up from school, teaching them, caring for them. It's not bad or wrong or 'un-feminist' that many women have an overwhelming urge to want to do those things themselves."

To which your response was -

"Shouldn't we be acknowledging that needing that level if control isn't a good thing."

Read that and think about how your response is likely to be interpreted.

You are arguing that because not all children can experience the extra 'control' a SAHM can provide; or perhaps because not all women are cut-out to be a SAHM, it somehow isn't fair and so needs to be done away with.

If you are not saying that, what are you actually saying?

No Topgub, you have tunnel vision. I think it's unfair that not every woman financially can afford to be at home if they would prefer to be.

Yes I believe you are bitter. You push the point so much without any explanation. You deliberately avoid points that justify an opposing pov.

You don't annoy me. I don't mind the debate. I find the ignorance, general lack of willingness to listen while being extremely persistent a bit amusing, so there's that too.

Are you hospital based within NHS Scotland?

@Foxgluv i agree.
I dont understand how people can honest want to take choices away from women at this stage. It baffles me.

And to be so judgemental about a whole group of people based on one element of their lives, where lives and family set ups are so complex, it just seems ludicrous to me.

Yay yet another thread started by somebody with choices.

OP some of us have disabled children which employers despite their best shiny efforts at inclusive mission statements etc means women like me become homebound and broke.
I don't choose not to work-it's impossible . I hate it but am responsible for a child , whose very being, access to medical and education support is in itself a full time job, alongside the you know 24/7 relentless caring.
But truly fabulous to read you're simplistic and helpful post well done you.

@tiggergoesbounce

I dont have an ideology that sahms shouldn't be a thing. It's almost like you've decided what I'm saying so you can fet all worked up and outraged rather than actually reading what I'm saying.

I've said (repeatedly) if women want to ve a sahm they should be and that no one should be forced to work of they dont want to. However. ideally in order to promote equality and not have women financially reliant on men they'd understand how vulnerable being a sahm makes them. Thats not back peddling. It's what I've always been saying. It's not my fault people are more interested in foaming at the mouth than actually reading the words.

I dont think the parent at home is more of a parent (although lots of sahm do) but I do think it absolutely influences gender roles and expectations. There's lots of research showing this is the case. Order you just think gender stereotypes and expectations form out of nowhere?

A man is responsible for his own actions. But they can't be a sahd if the woman is a sahm as a pp so beautifully demonstrated up thread. His wife just dreamed of being a sahm, how could he possibly say no?

If you can show me which posts you think have demonised and degraded women, that would be great

@limemintice

The fact you have interpreted that comment as me thinking it's unfair that not all children can have a sahm shows how severe your bias is. You genuinely can't imagine how anyone could view it as a negative

What I meant was that wanting to have that level of control is not a good thing.

Despite me saying exactly that.

Having an overwhelming need to control and be involved in every aspect of your child's life instead of sharing it with their other parent is totally foreign to me.

I dont need that level of control.

"I dont have an ideology that sahms shouldn't be a thing."

Ffs.

@Foxgluv

You haven't listened to anything I've said.

You haven't countered any points. Just been rude and personal so why would I answer any personal questions you're asking?

Youve repeatedly said I'm bitter without being able to explain why that's the case.

@Foxgluv

"My OH working less wouldn't open the door for another woman because of his line of work"

Is he a penis model?? That's literally the only job i can think of that a man can do but a woman can't 🤔

Except the poster didn't say anything whatsoever about not sharing with her husband - when he is there. Why did gig read it like that? She is clearly talking about having more 'control' over your child's day to day life, as opposed to that 'control' being handed over to a child care setting or with a nanny during those same hours. This is the whole point of being a SAHM.

@Topgub your idea is that women shouldn't stay at home, you said it

Ideally women shouldn't be SAHP !!! Was exactly what you said !!

It really is not others that are not reading what you have said, it is you who does not know what you have said!!

Noone is taking on board the "research" saying being a SAHM effects a childs view on parental responsibility, which you have said more thsn once then cant back up why ????

I can not comprehend how people can deny being a SAHM is sexist and not ideal.

Be a SAHM if you want to, but at least own the fact your contributing to ongoing misogyny.

Employers will NEVER offer equal pay for women, better paternity leave and flexible working for men etc etc while women (and men) fail to stand up for themselves and refuse to fight back against the sexism.

This thread is depressing.

If he leaves, the company is dissolved not sold. If he works less it doesn't fit the theory that a woman would take his position.

@limemintice

If you cant see that saying you have an overwhelming need to be involved in every aspect of your child's life reads as you wanting to do every part of it yourself (possibly that is the point of being a sahm) then I dont know how else to explain it to you.

I'm not sure why you'd read it as not sharing it with nursery as opposed to not sharing it with anyone

We've never used a nursery so I don't really get why sahm seem to presume its the default

I am a SAHM. I really didn't mean to be but circumstances evolved where I was working from the home, then that packed up during the pandemic.

My husband out earns me by about 1000%. He is in a very high paying industry of long hours. My contrubution has always been pitiful in contrast.
Now I am in a ridiculous position where I am unemployed and have been out of work for a decade. We have enough money for me to stay at home but I float about feeling useless and pointless. The house is a tip but I hate being the unpaid cleaner.
I am utterly lost.
I wish I had fought harder to hold onto my job but I was totally unsupported (husband works away a lot). I tried to keep working but the stress nearly killed us.
It's all such a waste.
I wish there had been more help when the kids were small.
I seem to be living a 1950s life!

I always felt like you until I had kids. I am extremely fortunate in that I am self-employed and decently paid and have ok-ish childcare and am able to work extremely flexibly - but if even one of those were not true, I'd be dependent on my DP. Would all those things apply to you? Two kids in and I am genuinely stunned by how many women make it work. They are heroic. It is fucking hard. And, given all that, it is is really hard to not become dependent.

I think people make decisions based on what is right for their family at that time, and I think to zn extent there should be more respect for people's choices. There are plenty of people, men and women that aren't really that ambitious about work and would rather do other things, and some of those are women that would rather look aft

There are women who have an overwhelming need/desire to look after their children themselves, never really found a job or career they were particularly

@tiggergoesbounce

Yes.

Ideally wouldnt be because lots of other conditions would have changed is not the same as no one should be ever it should be banned!!

Yes, I know you're not taking it on because you don't want to. That doesn't mean it's not true.

I dont know what you mean by cant back up why?

Children follow and repeat what they know. Its how cultural ideals and stereotypes are formed. Its fairly basic psychology.

Would you refuse to acknowledge that breastfeeding rates are so low because bottle feeding is the cultural norm? That research shows that most young girls have already decided by 7 or 8 that they won't bf?

Just like ideas about gender stereotypes are already locked in by age 6.

6 yo and girls already think boys are smarter and more capable. Better.

I honestly dont know how you can refuse to accept that sexist behaviours are modelled and copied.

Bloody phone. Some women would rather look after their own children once they come along rather than use childcare, particularly given the cost if they are the lower earner. Others would go mad without work, like me. Those at home may then continue with that once the children are at school- some suffer terrible lack of confidence once they have been out of the workplace for a while or in fast moving industries their skills become obsolete. Others prefer to be a lady of leisure. There should be more support those wanting to return to the workplace after a break , and flexible working should be the norm. There are still barriers there for some so there shouldn't be such judgement.

6 yo and girls already think boys are smarter and more capable. Better.

At 6yo I'm not sure children have the ability to understand work vs stay at home parenting. All they see is one parent going to work, or in our case, one parent coming in and the other going out. Mum did the parenting during the day whilst dad did the parenting in the evening.

I've seen research show that a lot of this conditioning happens at school and is largely down to teaching methods and subconscious biases. Changing teaching methods completely alters childhood perceptions on personal worth/value. I'm amazed that this hasn't been widely adopted by schools, given it's so fundamental.

TopGub - you seem to be a shift worker sith fixed hours p/w and have a husband who could fit around that. So what?

Surely you must be aware, that for the vast majority of couples, having two full-time working parents with young children means some form of childcare will be necessary? Unless one works nights, comes home and then the other takes over (hardly ideal either).

People on this thread are not talking about YOU with your NHS job and your husband who works around that.

If I had been working when my kids were little, like the vast majority of couples, we would have had to get a nanny in for those hours. Or some other form of childcare.

I did not want to get a nanny. Why the hell should we have to pay another woman to do what I want to do myself?

If that makes me "controlling," I don't know what to say to you really.

And before you say what I know you will say next, "Why could your H not do 50/50?" - the answer is - because not everybody is YOU and my husband's work is different to your husbands work. I know you struggle to grasp the astonishing fact that people have different jobs and different motivations in life, but there you are. Maybe one day you will grasp this basic fact of life. (But I'm not holding my breath)..

@Lunar27

Of course they do.

And they certainly do as they get older

Its odd to say schools have a huge impact (they do) but home life has none.

@limemintice

You need to stop taking everything so personally.

I havent mentioned own circumstances. You and others have

This isn't about individuals and their individual choices.

Its about changing attitudes on a population level.

But I agree with @LarryTrotter

The thread is so depressing I'm not sure we ever will

Why has being a mother and taking care of your children been downgraded in to a menial unimportant job that means you are being either being taken advantage of or freeloading off your partner?

Well you are right that attitudes on a population level will not be conforming to your paltry vision of humanity any time soon TopGub. So we can agree on that much.