To insist DC get christened even though it will cause huge fight in my marriage?

[probabyam]

Before we got married/had kids we didn't really talk about religion much. Neither of us go to church, however both have been christened. I'm Irish so went to a Catholic school and although we didn't really go to church as a family it was part of my life. DH was christened (Protestant) but actively anti any religion/thinks it's all mental.

When we got engaged I liked the idea of a church wedding but he was very against it so as it wasn't as if I attended church I didn't really feel I could insist and we had a lovely wedding we both loved, no regrets/issues.

Have had two DC, now ages 2 and 4. I would have liked to get them christened as babies (having godparents for them is something I would have liked) but DH against and again I wasn't bothered enough to push.

Now I feel like I wish we had got them christened. Most of my friends children have been christened (though none seem to attend church regularly). Part of me just likes the idea of godparents but another bit of me has a worry like a what if kind of thing, we're both christened why aren't they!
DH still massively against but yet again it seems to be a thing where the person who doesn't want it gets their way (another example is wanting more kids).

Anyway not sure that makes sense but are your kids christened and if so, do you go to church/mass?

OP, if you want your children (and you) to have more of a connection to their Irish side, you could enrol them in Irish dancing classes locally in the UK, or classes to learn to play a traditional instrument, e.g. the tin whistle, the fiddle, harp, accordion, concertina, banjo, bodhrán. [Music lessons in UK linked to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann listed here for instance, Comhaltas.

You could also sign them up at your local GAA club in the UK, if you have one, to learn to play Gaelic football, hurling or camogie.GAA Clubs in Britain

You can get lovely books of Irish fairytales and stories from Irish mythology to read to/with them. You can watch Irish TV programmes with them on RTÉ Player. As they get older, you can add in a cultural component to your visits to Ireland, visiting the famous historical sites, places of natural beauty, sightseeing, etc.

You could start a thread on the Craicnet section of Mumsnet to discuss ideas with other UK-based mammies.

Also, OP is what is often referred to as culturally Catholic. I, for instance, am an atheist, but recognise that I am culturally Catholic. In Ireland, it is still a much-loved tradition to punctuate family life with celebrations based on the sacraments, even if all those directly involved consider religion to be clap-trap (there are always plenty of relatives, etc. in attendance who do believe the religious significance at these events). The adults enjoy church weddings and christenings and children and parents enjoy the new outfits and hitting the milestone of Holy Communion and Confirmation. I don’t know how the non-believers square it all in their minds. I think they just see it all as traditional rites of passage, and as school-type events (a bit like junior proms) in the case of the later two.

For those asking what is the point of godparents if you are not raising the child in the faith. Well, you can honour family members and friends by asking them to be a godparent to your child, others can honour you by asking you to be the godparent of their child. Each godparent gives a lovely christening gift to the child. Often they each send a birthday and Christmas card to the child annually for ever more. Some will send a birthday and Christmas gift for ever more. I am a godmother. I do almost nothing as godmother, but I have remembered my nominal god-daughter in a small way in my will.

You can imagine that, culturally, the OP is a little conflicted about missing out on these cultural celebrations for her children and not having the little extra links for them of giving them godparents.

Same with us. It was very important to me and we are hugely connected to our church community. To be honest, it sounds as though like many people you want the photos and the fancy cake (from the first page of the thread, at least) but you don't seem interested in actually being a Christian and actively being part of a church.

When a child is baptised, the parents and God parents make some pretty serious promises around raising them into the Christian faith. Would you honestly feel happy standing in a church and making those promises knowing you have no intention of keeping them. That seems pretty disrespectful to be honest. An alternative to a baptism is a thanksgiving ceremony which you can also have in church. It isn't laden with the same promises, but you would be able to select God parents and connect with your local church. Likewise, there are completely secular naming ceremonies that you can do in a hotel or other venue.

OP you are perfectly entitled to want to have your children baptised - it's nothing to do with anyone on MN! If you feel strongly about it I would suggest you tell your husband that it is not up to him to make all the rules, and he got his way over the wedding. Why should his wishes trump yours all the time?

All my friends children are christened and none attend Sunday school / church. I personally don’t agree with this but plenty do it.

I have 3 children, 1 when I was young and 2 with DP (ex). I had my eldest christened, I used to attend church then and I took him to Sunday school from age 3 ish every week until I moved house when he was 7. My ex DP is a different religion to me so although I’d have liked my younger children to be christened it wasn’t something that was possible, as I wouldn’t agree to any kind of ceremony as part of his religion either. So they’ve been raised as no particular religion but they do celebrate festivals / events on both sides. They are old enough to choose now but haven’t as yet, and might never pick a particular religion to be part of.

speak to your DH again, explain why it’s important to you, or consider a naming day where you appoint friends who take on a similar role to a god parent.

In France they do civil baptisms. It’s a little ceremony and you name ´godparents’ (the name is not obviously religious in French.
). It’s a proper legal ceremony and the godparents formally agree to become legal guardians in the event of the death of both parents and I think any living grandparents get to offer to be the children’s guardians first.
In the UK you might have to write wills or something instead. But if it’s the godparent part that’s important to you, or the party, or both, they are ways of doing that that don’t involve religion.

I'm a Practicing Christian and my children are not christened. I hope one day they will also choose to be a Christian and get baptised.
Think it would be good to explore your feelings on this one. If you think they'll be 'saved' by christening for example.

I think having children does cause us to question what we think spiritually. Nothing wrong with exploring the Bible, re evaluating what you were brought up with etc? Could do an alpha course?

Is this about wanting the DC to experience and have fuller access to their cultural heritage? Definitely sounds like there's a bit of that in there, especially if by any chance you're not living in Ireland any more.

This is an astute comment. MN is weird about baptism- it's virulently anti-baptism and church wedding unless you're in the pews every week, which totally ignores the fact that religion is hugely cultural for a lot of people, especially in Ireland I'd imagine.

My family is very Anglican (so many clergy relatives!) and I got married in a church and both DC are christened despite me being a very occasional church goer only. DH grew up C of E but is agnostic now. I love the tradition and I have a lot of loyalty to the "tribe" of the church rather than being a true believer. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

My mum and dad got my brother and I christened as babies back in the late 70s/early 80s, but they admit now it was nothing to do with presenting us to the Church Family, and more to do with family tradition. Neither my brother nor I know our godparents (I think most have died now).

My brother is agnostic and I'm a hard-line atheist. Neither of us christened our kids. If we knew about them, we'd probably have Naming Days and then had a party afterwards.

I think christening/confirming a child should be done when they fully understand the ramifications. They have to believe in God and the Holy Trinity, they have to want to attend church, they want to follow the rules and rituals. I never think imposing a religion on a child is a good idea. In OPs case maybe she should take the kids to church regularly and see if they want to join when they are older, not for cultural reasons, but for spiritual reasons.

Not worth it.

Because she’s forcing her baby to join a religion that she herself doesn’t follow, and that she has no idea that the child would choose.

She’ll have to promise that she will ensure that the child it taught to be a Christian.

You say that like we all barged into her house and started telling her what to do with her child and not that we're replying to a thread she started asking for opinions...........

In regards to her husband and him getting his way all the time seems like he married the OP under the impression she wasn't religious and therefore their future children wouldn't be forced into a religion either

I am Christened, I am a Christian and I am regular church attender however my children are not christened. I believe it should be a choice they make when old enough. I bring them up in the Christian church family but do not describe them as Christian or enforce the belief on them - our conversations go "some people believe God created the world, other believe xyz" etc. I believe that infant baptism has no impact on a child's soul, all children's souls go to God should the worst happen (which I think is a concern you are alluding to).

This!

Personally I don't consider church attendance as some qualifier for being Christian and think you can be Christian without attending church regularly or even at all. If you believe in Jesus then that's l that really makes you one.

So any historian who thinks he existed as a historical figure is Christian, even if he’s moslem?

Don’t mean to derail but if you haven’t been christened/baptised can you still be buried in a church??
Never thought about it til now. Like couples like to be buried in same plot or parents, families together??

I grew up going to church with my mum and grandma. I never had the same beliefs but I got my kids christened because it was important to them really. And my husband supported me because we respect our families beliefs

@Owlilac my understanding is if god exists he loves every person equally regardless of they believe on him or not so you can choose your beliefs

I'm an atheist.

My kids have civil godparents. Not sure how to explain it but it's basically a non-religious ceremony where godparents (for want of a better word) make a commitment to the child. This has no legal value (as in, godparents wouldn't get custody if I died) but it's a real ceremony done in the city hall and it's a real (albeit purely voluntary) commitment.

This fits my beliefs and I like the thought that my kids have two people they can turn to for help/advice.

So if you just want the godparent aspect of it maybe consider a non-religious ceremony ?

Also if I married a partner and had children with them with the understanding that we were a non-religious family, I'd be really pissed off if they turned the table and tried to get our kids baptized.

If the kids want to get baptized when they're old enough to decide for themselves (not before 16 for me) that's fine.

I would be furious if my partner baptised my children especially after marrying me knowing my views. But then I am similar to OP's DH, not only am I atheist - I am vehemently anti religion.

Having them christened doesn't mean your force g them into anything!They can perfectly grow up bro g non Christian.no faith.its one day and they aren't branded with a sign that mean they give off I've been baptised alarms when they meet people. It coùlf be completely forgotten if they wanted.
It's not parents forcing them.that always sounds so grim.we make kids do things all the time when they are little,as part of family life or for what we think their good or even our good! Doesn't make the parent horrors.doesnt cause trauma to the child.
Op u sound like you still have some faith,or at least want to or still feel that connection.so your allowed to want this to happen.it won't harm them AT ALL.and it's part of your family and home and that ok.
Faith brings out often on here two very opposing views op, the bits on between often never ventured so it might be hard to get a reasoned answer from others.
You can have faith.you can get baptised without being devote,church going,cult faith believer!
And it's also a nice option for you kids to have in the future,they either don't mention it again or they do have faith by choice.and like knowing they have been baptised.and chosen right having godparents can be one of the loveliest things

Yabu, I allowed my dc to be christened to keep the peace, but my face on the christening photos says it all: not deliberately, I just couldn't take any of it seriously.

Both parents have to agree on this otherwise it's pretty meaningless.