This picture shows a perfect example of women cast aside because of the patriarchal world we live in

[flashbac]

Winner's podium of an 'inclusive' 'women's' cycling race.
Biological woman is third.

What eyeballs said.
Also Jo Smith clearly has a small kid and a cycling profile to think of. Whatever she really thinks, by saying anything at all, she is going to be slated for it. Whether she really thinks it’s OK or if she really thinks it’s an outrage. Men have put women in a shit position by elbowing into our sports.

How arrogant of you to assume that she doesn't really mean it when she says she was happy to enter the event. How patronising.

This is a really good take on things for those interested in a scientific view;

Sabine has some great other content too, well worth a watch.

Also, I think some of the comments on this thread sound like the kind of argument racists made decades ago. You should check yourselves, seriously.

If I and other women turned up to a race that had transwomen in it, I would encourage the women to stand down and just let the transwomen race. Then it would be exactly what they are trying to avoid - a trans race.

You all call for spaces where trans people can compete, someone created one, and that's still not good enough.

That’s right. Because there was no single sex race for women. And coincidentally 10 out of 12 prizes were awarded to biological men. So yes, it’s “still not good enough”.

Fancy organising a sporting race based on words you don't even understand the meaning of. Is this normal in sports today?

It's a good job nobody was forced to enter it then isn't it.

Yeah. Can't deny that.

But it just feels like they aren't trying to erase woman because they want to be one.

It's hard to describe how I see it.

I feel it's erasing woman as a biological sex in the sense that they don't have their own right to a biological equality in sport.

Yet because they want, think they are, say they are woman to compete against it doesn't feel like they want to erase them - but they are don't care that they are erasing their rights (does that make sense 🤷‍♀️)

Fancy objecting to an event that you haven't even bothered to read up about because of something you read on Mumsnet.

This. It's what I'm trying to say quite clumsily.

It's pushing down woman's rights but not erasing woman as a sex because they want to be one and have that category to compete in.

I fear for a world when identity trumps biology.

Where will it end?

If she new it was an inclusive race when she entered presumably she is happy to have come third.

You are only being reasonable if this was originally a women’s race and they were forced to accept biological men. Otherwise you are just being extremely nasty.

There are legitimate concerns about women’s rights clashing with trans rights but it’s important to to be discriminatory just for the sake of it as it undermines our fight for gender equality.

If you're going to lose your mind over males competing against females, perhaps you should actually check what event you're getting so worked up about because this one was clearly, deliberately mixed gender.

The categories were mixed gender. However in practice it was biological men Vs anyone who says their a woman and biological woman.

Trans men don't compete in the biological mens category. I've only seen them compete against biological woman.

I would be happy to be proven wrong though.

It's really not hard to have identity categories if it means so much for sporting bodies to be inclusive and promote equality.

They do it with para sport. You are classified based on your abilities and out into a class. You then compete against others in the same class or on a multi class basis where you score points for your time and performance.

*knew

*not to be (just woke up)

I've read up bad

This was a race for cos woman and those who aligned physically most to cos woman. And vice versa for males.

However, the woman Emily who competed in the cis woman category as she apparently aligns closely to females also raced in the mens race at the BUCS cycling event a few months ago. She was considered biologically fit and physically as strong as the males to compete in a team with those males. The winning team I might add.

You cannot be strong enough for a male team and biologically align with woman. Scientifically and biologically they cannot be compared. You can't have your cake and eat it.

I think despite what Jo has said publicly the fact she took her child onto the podium speaks volumes.

@Badqueen But the race organisers were dishonest, weren't they? By saying that people enter races that most closely align with their physical performance, they are giving the impression that all those in the 'women's' race (renamed to lightening, presumably so that transmen can enter) contains people all within the normal range of women's physicality and performance. But that wasn't the case was it? Because, as others have said, Emily is apparently a good cyclist, even in the men's races, which they have also recently entered. And two males got the top two places. It would be interesting to know what percentage of entrants were transwomen, against the percentage of transwomen were on the winning podium.

This was, in effect, a completely mixed sex race, with absolutely no criteria or testing to try to establish that people were facing fair competition within their race group. So the organisers should stop dishonestly pretending that it was a fair race, against people of 'aligned' abilities.

And naming it 'inclusion' means that they are implying that single sex races are 'exclusive'. When in reality, single sex races meet the principles of equality, that this race does not as it does not acknowledge that some groups of people (women) are disadvantaged when racing against males.

And finally, your argument is a bit like the CEO of Stonewall claiming that there is no issue with some VAWG services admitting males as there are still single sex services, when in reality the agenda that Stonewall et al are promoting is leading to the removal of single sex services as being 'exclusive' (also known as upholding the principles of equality), meaning that many women do not have a choice of single sex services when they need them. Again, its dishonest.

What the movement you are defending has done has removed the principles of equality (which has coherence and a sound evidence base to it) with that of 'inclusion' which is simplistic, incoherent and reintroduces inequality for groups facing disadvantage against other groups (such as women in sport).

think despite what Jo has said publicly the fact she took her child onto the podium speaks volumes.

So when Mo Farah won his Olympic medals, what was was the subtext of him bringing his children onto the track to celebrate?

That he wanted to share his success with his family?

You're ascribing feelings and motivations to the people in the photo without knowing the first thing about them.

@glamosaurus @HermioneKipper funding stopped because he wasn’t good enough for the mens team? He now, conveniently, wants to indenting as a female? He now wins womens races? Interesting.

What the movement you are defending has done has removed the principles of equality

I'm not defending any movement. Yet again, a dissenting voice on here automatically means you're a TRA. I'm not. I'm a gender critical feminist. I just think that this daily/weekly dollop of "look at these awful transpeople living their lives" sneaking into the main board deserves to be challenged. In this case, "look at these awful transpeople cheating (even though they were racing in accordance with the rules) in an event specifically set up up cater to inclusivity" how fucking terrible of them.

These people entered the race on the basis of the rules. The rules were such that anyone of either sex could enter either category. That's what they did.

So they weren't cheating. If you don't like the way the event was run, set up your own.

Of course this isn't right. It's all very well saying that Jo Smith can't say anything against it due to rape/death threats however conversely she doesn't have to come out in full support. I haven't read her page however it would seem she is very accepting and happy to not be able to win (because she never will against men) and is happy to compete against men.

Women continuing to compete and support this is accelerating the acceptance of men competing/taking over women's sport. Jo is holding her daughter, I wonder what she is telling her about how sport and winning in sport works.

If I was in this position I would not compete. I agree with other posters, women need to try to start their own events and put proper rules in place. There are no laws that state TW have to be allowed to compete against women.

BadQueen maybe actually read my post, before calling me arrogant and patronising. I haven’t ‘assumed’ anything at all. Funnily enough, I’ve no powers of looking into the minds of other people.

It makes you look a bit silly posting as if you do though (objectively- that’s not just me being ‘arrogant’ or ‘patronising’)

Men have put women in a shit position by elbowing into our sports- whether it’s this competition or cycling in general.. or any other women’s competitions or sports.

Why don't women refuse point blank to participate. This is getting ridiculous now

The argument isn't that the race wasn't set up for inclusivity.

It's that it failed to be inclusive or fair.

Emily Bridges competed and won on a mens cycling team recently. Yet was out in a rice as aligning like a woman.

Which is it? She cannot be both physically male and female in alignment.

@Badqueen i have also said that women need to setup their own races however we know it's not as easy as that. Typically more men compete so numbers of women might be an issue, sponsors tend to favour mens sport and I do think it will be difficult for women to get their own sponsors. Womens sport often rides in the back of mens at that level.

There are too many women, like Jo, who are happy to go along with this. Anyone who doesn't is a bigot. Unfortunately I suspect events for women only would be targeted by TRAs.

I'm not defending any movement.

But you are. Interesting that you don't see it.