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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

This picture shows a perfect example of women cast aside because of the patriarchal world we live in

285 replies

flashbac · 04/06/2022 14:15

Winner's podium of an 'inclusive' 'women's' cycling race.
Biological woman is third.

This picture shows a perfect example of women cast aside because of the patriarchal world we live in
OP posts:
BatDuck · 05/06/2022 16:02

Perhaps the TW are just another subset of body type.

Yes they are. They are male, a subset of male people. They are not, in any shape or form, female. Unless you count nail varnish and long hair as a signifier of womanhood?

In which case, why does my uterus not make me a woman but a TW’s clothes and make up make them one?

BatDuck · 05/06/2022 16:02

Perhaps the TW are just another subset of body type.

Yes they are. They are male, a subset of male people. They are not, in any shape or form, female. Unless you count nail varnish and long hair as a signifier of womanhood?

In which case, why does my uterus not make me a woman but a TW’s clothes and make up make them one?

user30 · 05/06/2022 16:27

Peoniesandpeaches · 04/06/2022 14:40

And where is your AIBU? If there is no question or poll why couldn’t you post this on the feminism board? I’m really sick of all this crap being on the front page.

I'm sick of boring threads about weddings and school admissions when women are being treated with contempt

SameSkyDifferentPlanet · 08/06/2022 20:50

@BetsyBigNose Thank you, yes, I did write this, I sometimes struggle with posting on this board because most of the women on here are such amazing wordsmiths, that I feel a bit inadequate. This poem just came to me because I know the emotion involved with being told that a girl can’t play football, cycle fast etc.

TheKeatingFive · 08/06/2022 21:07

Ultimately, female specific sport was established for very good reason. If we're going to simply piss all over that because biological males want to have their cake and eat it, then let's at least be honest about it. If it's just about subsets of bodies, then why did we segregate sport in the first place?

Ithoughtsummerwascoming · 08/06/2022 21:41

I'm not up with all of this but I also was confused because I saw men's legs?

I'm aghast! What the hell is going on??

Ithoughtsummerwascoming · 08/06/2022 21:42

Peonies I'm very grateful this isn't hidden away on a sub board!
People like me who don't really know what's going on but trying to raise daughters need to know this!

lightand · 08/06/2022 21:46

Unless women stop competing[pretty sure I have written this before somewhere], it is not going to change. Is it. The coaches and all other people involved with it, kick up a fuss to.

I was on a thread the other day, think it was this forum, where a woman in a casual fun run I think it was, was not that fussed about the whole issue, until it directly affected her.

That is what has happened. People are not doing something[and that is doing something about something, as opposed to merely talking] until it comes all the way down to themselves or someone they care about.

lightand · 08/06/2022 21:49

I am not involved in sport. If I was, I would be kicking up a right rumpus.
But women competitors just are not doing so. Perhaps they actually are not all that bothered, at the end of the day. In which case, well no point doing anything.

lightand · 08/06/2022 21:49

They would need to do it en masse. Else they would get picked off, one by one.

Impier · 08/06/2022 22:08

So if I organise a race, to keep it simple it should be divided into anyone with a Y chromosome, and anyone without. That should avoid any confusion over gender fluidity.

bridgetreilly · 08/06/2022 22:17

It seems to me that everyone should have the opportunity to compete in sport at their appropriate level. In competition with others of the same sex. I don’t care if they call themselves Emily or Emil, whether they have real boobs or fake ones. But I do care about men taking over women’s sport.

How do they even feel pleased to win in those circumstances? It would be like an elite athlete joining a primary school running race.

bridgetreilly · 08/06/2022 22:20

Especially if you accept that a solution that is fair to all should be found and if you consider trans people to be the gender that they identify as then what can be done?

@WarriorN, it’s not hard. People simply have to compete according to their sex and not their gender. The number of intersex people where sex is genuinely confused is infinitesimally tiny. It doesn’t matter what clothes a person wears or what pronouns they choose. In sport it is their physical body which matters, and that is easily divided by sex.

TheKeatingFive · 08/06/2022 22:42

and if you consider trans people to be the gender that they identify as then what can be done?

I don't even understand what's difficult about this. They can be whatever gender they like, but compete in their sex class.

WibblyWobblyJane · 09/06/2022 03:13

lightand · 08/06/2022 21:49

I am not involved in sport. If I was, I would be kicking up a right rumpus.
But women competitors just are not doing so. Perhaps they actually are not all that bothered, at the end of the day. In which case, well no point doing anything.

So lose their scholarships and just leave their universities? Because that’s is what we are talking about in US college sports.

TheSandgroper · 09/06/2022 04:50

Apology if this has been signposted already. I haven’t read the full thread. But this is essential listening

m.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ihN79Kk-c

KangFang · 09/06/2022 04:55

Totally unfair.

The world has gone mad.

FrippEnos · 09/06/2022 06:50

lightand · 08/06/2022 21:49

I am not involved in sport. If I was, I would be kicking up a right rumpus.
But women competitors just are not doing so. Perhaps they actually are not all that bothered, at the end of the day. In which case, well no point doing anything.

The problem is that would not only see them loose their place at university but also see them band from any other university as well.

TheSandgroper · 09/06/2022 07:49

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4493512-A-report-from-a-mother-of-a-swimmer-USA?page=3

Read the essay from @misstache. About half way down the page. It answers many questions about how much depends upon young women keeping their sport participation going and why they don’t speak up. Deeply moving.

FreddyVoorhees · 09/06/2022 08:24

Men and women are different and sport absolutely should be based on sex grounds.

Florence Griffith Joyner (RIP) set her 100m and 200m records many years ago.

I had a look at where she'd stand compared to the men's.

Well over 6,000. So nowhere near Olympic qualifying let alone winning anything.

But it's an equal plying field.

That's why men have deadlifted over 200kg more than women.

Men and women are different. No amount of diversity/equality/buzzwords will change that.

Trans women are not being stopped from competing. They're just being stopped from entering the wrong sex based class. Because you know, science. @

DOBARDAN · 09/06/2022 14:21

Ridiculous state of affairs

ErrolTheDragon · 09/06/2022 14:33

TangyTangerine · 05/06/2022 13:01

I'm confused. Why does the t shirt of the first and second winner say thunder. Are you sure this isn't the thunder category?

The whole event was called thundercrit I think?

ErrolTheDragon · 09/06/2022 14:36

TheKeatingFive · 08/06/2022 22:42

and if you consider trans people to be the gender that they identify as then what can be done?

I don't even understand what's difficult about this. They can be whatever gender they like, but compete in their sex class.

Yes.
To accommodate gender, any remaining differences in dress codes between male and female events should be scrapped, any athlete should choose whichever option they want. For instance, women beach volleyball players should be allowed the same types of shorts and tops as men, not forced to wear bikinis if the don't want to. That sort of thing, that's 'gender'.

ivykaty44 · 09/06/2022 14:40

This race was non binary

It wasn’t a woman’s race

7 people took part

Emotionalsupportviper · 09/06/2022 14:45

WibblyWobblyJane · 09/06/2022 03:13

So lose their scholarships and just leave their universities? Because that’s is what we are talking about in US college sports.

This is the problem especially in the US.

But in almost every country there is a huge amount of social pressure put on women who speak out, and many find themselves the subject of death threats, and their families threatened, too.

Lia Thomas' team mates all said they were delighted to have him among them and didn't mind him sharing changing rooms - until one day the mother of one posted (anonymously) how intimidated her daughter and the other girls felt. Thomas had refused separate changing facilities and insisted on sharing with the women and "he is obviously attracted to women". (You can guess what that means.)

Once one had broken cover another couple stepped forward, and another and another.

At one race meet all of the girls held hands in solidarity and silence before taking their blocks. they have walked in silence around he pool. People are starting to support them - but every one of these girls knows she has now got a target on her back as a troublemaker.

Women in other sports (a skateboarder whose name I can't recall is one) are coming forward pointing out not only the unfairness to the girls competing in that particular event, but to the girl who loses her place on a team every time a man takes a place.

This is happening at non-elite level, too, and girls will drop out of sports if it continues.