Part 5 AIBU to want 15 minutes fame? (depp v heard)

[ENoeuf]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4554620-part-4-aibu-to-keep-this-discussion-on-amber-and-jonny-going

continuing our unhealthy obsession 😂

Personally, I don't think he'll lose. I don't think he'll let it rest either way.

The outcome will be fascinating. The jury have to decide on both suits. They can find in favour of both, find in favour of neither, or in favour of just one.

The second of those options would be real poetic justice, to my mind. He's obviously as abusive as hell. He is, almost certainly, using the courts to continue pursuing her and keeping her in his power. She wouldn't know the truth if it bit her on the behind and has possibly (probably) sabotaged her own testimony through being disingenuous about serious things.

The pledging/donation of the money is a case in point. Bredehoft's explanation of how big-money donations work in practice is plausible, but this doesn't detract from the fact that she explicitly said she'd donated all the money, which was false.

As for the claims that she's falsifying evidence and then submitting it in a court of law, that's far more serious. I want to see the relentless campaign against her stopped - it's vicious and holds women to different standards from that of men, that's plain. But you can't have people falsifying evidence. It undermines the very basis of the judicial system and if she's indeed done this surely she has to answer for it. That's irrespective of the outcome of this case.

I don't think the system is through with Amber Heard just yet. She's already in a vulnerable position because of the public excoriation of her, and I regard that as very unfortunate. But no one can lie under oath, or fabricate evidence (if this turns out to be the case), and get away with it.

I, for one, have been in danger of forgetting that this isn't about the wider issue of #MeToo, or #MenToo. It's about two individuals getting a fair hearing based solely on the evidence in this case. They are spokespeople for no one, despite how they might have tried to present themselves.

Hollywood has long been accepting of a lot of bad behaviour. Many of their key characters lives lives of excess. Too much fame and fortune with adulation and little responsibility makes for very entitled people who behave badly with little consequence. Hollywood is still in the early days of not condoning bad behaving and is still a long ways from actively consequencing those who do. We just saw Will Smith hit Chris Rock on stage and receive a standing ovation moments later.

While I think Johnny's language is ugly, it has all been within the context of private texts. I think there are probably many people who if we had access to their cell phones and could read all their private texts - we would have a very different view on them. I am not someone to use any of that kind of language and nor do my friends so I am not saying everyone has sexist and crude and angry language and texts on their phones, but I think we would see a lot of sexist language - dick, dickhead, prick, bitch, cunt, asshole, wanker, whore, pig, fuckboy, slut, lack of balls / small dick language, knob, pussy etc. I am not excusing his language, I think it is disgusting, I just think it is far more normal and normalized in private texts than one might expect. I am also not denying the gendered power dynamics. Overall societally, men do have more power and privilege and men can do more damage with that power and privilege. Hollywood is no exception to that. It is still run mostly by powerful and priviledged men.

Those generalities don't change my view of this specific case. I do think Johnny has acted badly many times. He has a well established sustance use dependence - a medical issue - that can seriously impact those around him. I have no doubt he could get angry and jealous and did. My personal view is that Amber was enamoured and star struck by him but I am not sure she ever really loved him. And I think the reality of being in a relationship with someone with a long standing substance use problem was more than she had expected to have to deal with. On top of the susbtance use, he was older and based on pictures and his lifestyle as a rocker, things like personal hygiene don't see to have topped his list of priorities on a day to day basis. His teeth were rotted by the drugs and his hair often looks greasy and unkept. She saw and got the glamourous lifestyle she had wanted of dating a mega movie star but it came with more baggage than she had wanted or expected.

I also don't like that after the divorce with Amber, his next girlfriend was 21 at the time and only 5 years older than his daughter. They dated for 3 years but it shows a lack of character to me that after everything with Amber, he would date someone so young and I really didn't like how he tells someone he met a f'ing sublime little Russian".

None of that changes how I feel about Amber's credibility in this. There are a handful of specific things that I base my view of her on. I think when the shine wore off her relationship with Johnny and she had used him to get what she could from him, she created this narrative of him as a violent abuser and then implemented it for her own gain. I then think she got caught up in her own spotlight with all the adulation on her for speaking out and the engagements and public platform and praise she received and the snowball just kept rolling and she couldn't go back on what she had said so she just kept adding more and more.

I think you might be close to my thinking on them tbh. But I disagree on the marketability stuff. Behind closed doors and rumours fine, but all of this is actively exposed which makes a difference. Maybe he can recover it but I'm not convinced.

Beetlejuice 1 was bad enough, why on earth they'd make BJ 2 is beyond me. I think JD is past the age of playing fantasy roles now and should stick with more serious, mature roles. Either way I hope TB does work with him again in whatever capacity.

I appreciate that JD is a deeply flawed and not necessarily likeable individual. I think his drug and alcohol problems have clouded his personality in the past to the point that I don't think anyone knows who the "real" JD is, including JD, and I think JD has spent his whole life trying to escape being JD in one way or another. I do think a lot of the emails and text sound like they were composed when he was out of it.

It also seems that he has no model for healthy relationships and mature adult behaviour. He's been able - and possibly needed - to retreat into a fantasy world through his entire life, surrounded by yes men because up until recently he's been a money machine, although the wheels can all too easily fall off, and I don't doubt that many who once sucked up to him would step over him in the gutter if it all fell to pieces.

I know that he need never work again and hasn't needed to for some time, but I wonder if needs the validation of acting and being admired for it, as many actors do, plus the escape into another world that acting brings.

I don't know if he is still abusing drugs and alcohol now or if he is managing to stay clean/sober, for however long. If he is not abusing then he will nevertheless be on a cocktail of prescription medication to keep from "flipping" or "sinking"; I don't doubt that for a second. The damage done in childhood will never leave him and despite years of therapy, I don't know if he will ever be able to get through life without chemicals/pharmaceuticals, be they legit or illegit.

I think the marketability is untested. I agree with you that he might not be marketable anymore and that someone will have to take a risk to test that out.

I also want to say @ENoeuf that I really appreciate your contributions throughout the threads. You have maintained your own perspective and viewpoint in the face of many strong opinions and been able to take a respectful and balanced way of assessing the evidence and responding to posts. We can all learn from your approach to this case.

How does the fact he managed to maintain a 14 year marriage with VM? During that time he seemed to be able to maintain life as a functioning drug addict and alcoholic. It seems she was able to talk him down and deal with his behaviours so it didn't result in physical violence. Or so we hope.

It seemed this all spiralled once he broke up with her and found himself in this toxic relationship

@mummyrocks1

Based on what we know of this mother - Amber was another version of her. I think this is why this relationship was entirely different from the others and I also think this is why he is fighting so hard to clear his name. Despite his mother's abuse, he stuck by her until the end, he brought her to premiers, he stayed in her life...until she died. Only then did he speak up against her. I think with Amber he was determined to break that cycle and to not be the one that sticks by the abuser until they die no matter what. He realized how harmful that loyalty to his mother had been to him. I think his mother dying freed him to also walk away from Amber but then she wouldn't let him go and this time he decided to have a voice.

Thanks @Midlifemusings I think I said earlier I've really reassessed my use of social media over the last year and tried to think about what I'm saying and how it might land. Glad its paying off!

Awww isn’t it amazing that she was able to stop him from beating the shit out of her. What an aspirational marriage. Women of the world-please remember it is your duty to stop men from being violent.

"How does the fact he managed to maintain a 14 year marriage with VM? "

Well notwithstanding that they weren't actually married (semantics, I know) we don't know what was going on behind the scenes, and eventually that all fell apart. Perhaps VP eventually had enough, who knows. It must be very difficult living with such an emotionally immature and unstable individual and I guess it just got too much.

Well he's due to have a part in a foreign language film I believe, so I think the industry will be watching to see what comes of that.

We may find he takes those small "passion projects" now and more music.

The issue I have is if he wins then #MeToo campaign is about to be hit hard. And like JD's team stated "there was no other me too" after AH accusations. MeToo allowed women who had felt they had been silenced by the powerful men of Hollywood and industry to speak out against the named perpetrator with protection from the campaign. In AH's case nobody said me too. JD's team were very clever to make this point.

They separated because Amber and Johnny both cheated on their respective partners to be together.

He’s now been accused of rape, I’ve already seen Depp the rapist on SM, how does he accept that and move on. An account with no evidence, would never be taken on by a prosecutor but she has said this under oath in a court. I honestly believe if the mainstream media imply this as some sort of fact, he’ll OD within a few years. He couldn’t cope with being called a wife beater and now he’s called a rapist.

"Awww isn’t it amazing that she was able to stop him from beating the shit out of her. What an aspirational marriage. Women of the world-please remember it is your duty to stop men from being violent."

WR, KM and VP have verified that JD never hit them. And I fully believe that AH is a manipulative, herself mentally unstable, liar. But I'm fully aware that some people will believe a woman no matter what. I just think it's a travesty that the Australia recording couldn't be used in court as I think it provides the strongest and most convincing evidence I have encountered that AH is not telling the truth. Although there is plenty of other evidence that has also persuaded me, that in particular struck me.

"They separated because Amber and Johnny both cheated on their respective partners to be together."

I know, but I gather things hadn't been hunky dory for some time before that. #objection #hearsay

You rang 🤣 it's not my favourite thing to shout out say.. Objection Hearsay lol

#lack of foundation #calls for speculation 😅

I’m fairly sure my Ex hasn’t been physically violent in all his relationships. There are only two that I know of.
Does that mean he isn’t an abuser?

And do you have any comment on the assertion that it is how a woman manages an addicts behaviour that influences how violent he can become?

Objection! Hearsay!

"Does that mean he isn’t an abuser?"

I don't believe he is. I think they were both two equally drug abusing, mutually toxic and explosive individuals who together were as bad as each other when it came to chucking things about and wrecking a place. But AH was careful to make sure that only JD was captured on photo, audio, and video looking bad.

"I honestly believe if the mainstream media imply this as some sort of fact, he’ll OD within a few years"

Yes, I expressed that fear earlier in this thread. However much of an immature, dislikeable man child he may be, I fully believe that he is neither a wife beater or rapist and I absolutely don't want him to either outright suicide or spiral into an eventual drugs death. Obviously I don't want that for AH either, I think she is very disturbed and I hope she can get whatever help she needs.

"We may find he takes those small "passion projects"

Agreed, I think he may very well take on smaller roles of particular personal interest. Also, even if he does win this case and ostensibly clear his name, I wonder if the HW big guns will run away screaming from the self harm/ self destructive element - which I think includes the alcohol and drug abuse. For all the platitudes about "Mental Health Matters", I don't think that looks too great on your CV.

I think if this court case goes his way, the film industry will be hot on his heels. Maybe not for family/child friendly movies, but for anything else, I think he will be in big demand.

There has been a lot of publicity around him and if that publicity becomes positive and the media starts to frame JD as the wronged victim of AH, then film makers will want to capitalize on that publicity and be seen as the facilitators of helping JD to regain his movie star status.

Apart from the studios which have kept a distance, are there any prominent Hollywood actors etc who have come out against JD? I've seen plenty of support from actors he's worked with and is friends with.

I think the other reasons for his want to do small personal projects will also be the anger he feels against the studios.

So let's for one second believe he is 100% not guilty. I know that may be hard for some.

This man, was dropped by major studios on the "word" "false accusation" of someone else. He lost everything, was unable to tell his side, he was presumed guilty that very second, and blacklisted.

Why would he then return to work with the people who dropped him. I think his statement towards Disney, the alpacas and 300million, demonstrates his anger at these major studios. They turned their back on him, before he'd even been able to defend his position, his truth.

That's going to leave a sour taste, and again if he is the wronged party, I can't blame him for that stance.