Part 5 AIBU to want 15 minutes fame? (depp v heard)

[ENoeuf]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4554620-part-4-aibu-to-keep-this-discussion-on-amber-and-jonny-going

continuing our unhealthy obsession 😂

@Boulshired I agree! Wasn't that the night his mum died?

I was hoping to wake up to a verdict!

I wonder if the male heavy jury will help JD to win?

It's a holiday in US this weekend, so the jury won't be back to court till Tuesday.

Because she was talking rubbish. How can she claim Amber should have had 31.5 million in compensation. Then she was making wild claims about Rothemburg - spelling? Not backed up. Then they objected to the doctor. Not sure why but they were angry as the lawyer said the doctors name over the microphone in disbelief before objecting and they were whispering.

I hope they haven't messed it up that there will be a fair discussion for AH.

Wow I just read Elaine's legal background and that woman waffling during closing was not at all what her cv reads was it ! She sounded like a woman you'd meet who would tell you a story and it goes on and on and on

I didn't realize that the jury doesn't get transcripts or recordings of testimony. They also don't see any demonstratives. They only get the exhibits that were numbered and entered into evidence - photos, the evidence recordings, and video clips. Along with jury instructions. Everything else is from their notes they took during the trial.

I think they can ask for clarification of their notes but I don't know if they can ask did so and so say x?

Wow. I thought that would be standard. That's a lot for them to remember and to wade through. I would think that would make it much harder and muddy the waters ti making a well informed decision. I can't call it which way they will go on the abuse claims. It's such a hard case.

I think the rational is that the jury is supposed to deliberate based on the preponderance of the evidence. They don't want them bickering or stuck over the interpretation of a word here and there and it would take weeks to reread or replay testimony. They want them to consider everything that they heard and what that made them think about the cases right now. They want them to focus on the jury instructions and the specifics of those documents and then look at the exhibits that support or refute those claims.

Lawyers are humans too and they get nervous and flustered. I think in this case, she was a bit out of her comfort zone. She had a difficult client who clearly had lied many times. Her client actually threw her own lawyers under the bus many times. She changed her story and was borderline a hostile witness at times. She couldn't be given direction - as a rebuttal witness she said whatever she wanted. So they are fighitng a weak case that has a couple points to stand on but a lot of noise around those points. She was also up against a very competent team of Chew, Vasquez et al. She practices in VIrginia, DC and Maryland - a very different world than the celebrity world and maybe celebrity clients and everything that goes with them are new to her. Then it is all televised and a bit of a circus online.

She might be a great lawyer with a different client in a different context. She wasn't great in this context.

She might be a great lawyer with a different client in a different context. She wasn't great in this context.

I'm sure I read that her specialty is out of court settlements. That would explain why she struggled at times.

I’m actually worried that there is no verdict that can calm what comes next on SM. The defamation part of the trial is often forgotten and this trial has become tribal on who is telling the truth. I’ve read comments such as “I believe Amber” followed by “I hope Johnny gets the help he needs” in the same tweet. If you believe Amber then you believe she was raped with a bottle, then Depp deserves prison. It can’t be both ways. They can both be guilty of things but it cannot be mutual or equal. None of this can be answered at the trial, but this will be the narrative. If Amber wins it will be spun that the court saw Amber as the truth teller and Depp the sinister abuser who continues to abuse. Similar to Depp if he wins, the narrative will be Amber is seen as a either a liar and abuser, or a woman who was brought down by the power of misogyny. This case has brought questions that can’t be answered.

Jury Instructions
www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuit/sites/circuit/files/assets/documents/pdf/high-profile/depp%20v%20heard/cl-2019-2911-jury-instructions.pdf

I am surprised Amber and her lawyers were allowed to speak about negative social media response to Amber during the trial. That has no bearing on this case in terms of damages related to the suits. Why were comments about putting her baby in a microwave allowed and repeated in closing by Elaine. There was no evidence of this (and we know the same phrase was used in another court case happening now)

She might be a great lawyer with a different client in a different context. She wasn't great in this context.

Her and her team should have recognised this and taken the decision for the other guy to take over more then. He had the same problems but managed to do a good job. This doesn't look good to the jury and harmed AHs case. She just looked incompetent when she kept forgetting to turn her microphone on and wasn't able to rephrase the same question. If you know things aren't going well and the jury are probably not responding to you well then you need to make the decision to change tact and do the best representation you can. It's like they didn't work as a team to share what they were going to say at all and to merge their closing statements together.

Yes- AH did make it difficult and probably put a strain on their relationship. That whole thing about having evidence but she's not in control of what her lawyers show. That would not go down well with lawyers. If I was her lawyer I would be angry at what she was implying. I am sure if she had better photographs of her injuries which were valid they would be shown.

It was obvious JD had a much more mutually affectionate relationship with the lawyers. They were a much better quality too. I guess you get what you pay for. Why he needed quite so many of them I don't know. Power in numbers?

I agree with you @Boulshired people will be all or nothing whereas I think some stuff has been exaggerated or twisted. I think some of the recordings are iffy without the context or lead up.
The outcome can't be eg 'we think she's been abused enough to win but we don't believe eg the bottle incident'. It's just 'we think she's been abused and wins'.
Likewise if he wins I think that all the other shit he's done gets lost and she's down as a liar through and through.
I don't think however he will be used in big studio stuff. I don't think the social media fan base is enough to persuade studios especially as a lot of it seems to be bought and bots.

JD's team were far better in closing. AH team fell a bit flat. Rottenborn 's final closing on rebuttal was weak. That was his time to be the last person to speak in court and he failed to rise to the moment.

I also agree with the PP who said I worry how this will play out in SM as verdicts are returned.

If AH looses, she will forever be damned as the liar, the boy who cried wolf, the hate towards her will be insane. Her security and safety will be an issue.

And even if AH wins, the hate online, the threat to her safety and security will be greater.

She's really in a vulnerable position here, win or loose she's fucked to put bluntly.

I think if anyone takes a risk on him, it would be Tim Burton. They have worked together for decades and remained personal friends throughout the years. Tim was willing to take a risk on him early on, the question is will he do it again.

I really think she just needs to 'disappear' for awhile. Social media will move on to the next circus and the next scandal and the next celeb drama. My concern is that she will want to respond and defend herself and keep herself in the media. She herself said she was going to fight to have a voice going forward. Her girlfriend has continued to be very argumentative on social media throughout the trial.

Someone needs to advise them to go live somewhere away from the hoopla for the next few months and let social media move on with NO fodder about her. SM will move on. I just don't know if Amber can move on.

I agree that there will be no real winners in this. I think AH is a very damaged and disturbed individual. I think JD is also very damaged, but I believe that AH is particularly manipulative and conniving, and from the evidence available, I personally don't believe her claims. But I've said before, that even if there had never been any allegations of abuse from either side, they are both too very damaged people who shouldn't ever reside on the same continent, never mind under the same roof. They were clearly an utter car crash when they were together.

I don't know - I mean if she's telling the truth overall how appalling to be forever silenced because of how powerful he is. I hope she has some strong people around her who can keep her sane.

I agree of he wins Tim Burton may take a risk. I think many studios might risk it though, because their fallback will be "well he was found not guilty" they will also be aware of the public support for him and they know any box office release will see hoards of JD fans flock to relinquish their money just in support of him.

I agree - movies are businesses and businesses want to make money and money is the bottom line but publicity also matters in that world. I think most studios will want someone to be a test case and see what the response is to hiring him. They know they will get a lot of Johnny fans - but will the #MeToo / #TimesUp / #BelieveAllWomen activism give them bad publicity. I don't think those movements will back Amber moving forward but someone needs to test it.

It's not just the AH accusations. It's the public knowledge of his shitty attitude to women (look how hard he wriggled to avoid being associated with the texts that weren't just shitty about Amber, he knew extending his language to include others and not just an ex/partner looks terrible) and his huge substance abuse problems and aggressive behaviour even if just directed at cabinets. He's not a young troubled hell raiser - he's an old (for Hollywood) unreliable addict .

I read online that JD will be starting in Tim Burtons film, Beetlejuice, I think? Winona Ryder will be in it too again apparently. How true this is I don’t know!

If he loses he won’t let it rest. There will be something else. Am not sure what he’ll do but he is a rich, powerful man and he is determined to break her.
If he had won the UK case this circus would never have happened. It’s scary how much power and influence Depp and his cronies have-the SM feeds are crazy and so one sided.

He will appeal I think.