To worry that no state, non-selective secondary schools are good enough.

[SecondarySnob]

I know I am BU. I know there will be loads of people who send their kids to the local comp and their kids do fine and get good results and aren't exposed to hideous language and behaviour daily.

But.

I can't see how that could happen having researched all of the local schools.

Oldest DD is 9yo. So this reality is suddenly hitting me.

We're in a non-Grammar area. (DH and I grew up in a different county and went to grammars)

There's a girls grammar 10 miles away which has its own entrance exam so that's where I'm keeping my fingers crossed for her.

I'm also trying to work out how we can afford private school.

Because I've looked at results, spoken to friends who work in local comps, had them kids pass me when out and about, seen them walking to and from school, seen posts on local Facebook pages.

And I just can't see how my DD would get through 5 years at any of them and achieve what she's capable of and come out happy and confident like she deserves to be.

I don't want her to get straight A*s but I do want her to feel comfortable and supported enough to achieve the best she can.

I know this will get flamed by most. As it sounds horribly horribly snobby. I guess my background of going to a school that expected a lot of us means I was sheltered from the reality of a lot of teenage life.

But I'm hoping there are some mums out there like me who are worried at how secondary schools are.

And if so how did you make it work for your kids? Private education? Moving house?

I am ND too, undiagnosed at school. I think a perfect setting for me would have been a school with at least some other kids like me. It was feeling different, not as good as everyone else, that I struggled with.

If you can find a school with lots of ND kids, where they are celebrated, where the school is proud of them and they are proud of themselves, that might be good (at my DC's school for instance, one of the after school clubs is Autism Club). Not that autistic people should only mix with autistic people, but if I'd had people that understood and offered me a bit of solidarity, I think I would have felt less of a weirdo.

(I hope you know what I mean - of course this is all very personal to me - not saying it necessarily applies to your DC, especially the weirdo bit!)

A school with a fairly large ND population ought also to be very practised in helping ND kids to navigate and get the best out of school. I think asking the SENCO is a really good idea.

Autism club- i love it! What a great idea.

I know someone who's recently pulled her child out of the local state school and sent her to the private one instead because girls at state school 'talk about boys too much and don't take their education seriously'.

I remember my school days when it was universally acknowledged that the girls at the private school in question were a right bunch of old slappers. Lol.

You sound a bit deluded

I went to a grammar school but now live in an area that doesn't have and think it is better.
Yes I did well at school but some of my friends who where not as good academically wish they had gone to a comp rather than being made to feel not good enough. One of my school friend has just moved her daughter from a grammar to a comp because she was being horribly bullied mainly online and the school didn't or couldn't do much to stop it and her daughters happiness is more important than attending a grammar school.
It is possible to move schools if you really hate it. Not everyone can afford private school. In an ideal world all schools should offer the same education but schools get a reputation for being food, parents with the means will try and get their kids in to the school and are probably the parents who will support their child's education so the gulf better the good schools and the less good schools grow.

Precisely why I needed advice and asked for it.

This sounds wonderful.

I wasn't exposed to a tenth of the things at my private school that my sibling at state school was

So you're basing all of this on the assumption that kids who go to grammar school won't possibly ever swear or occasionally be badly behaved?? Good luck with that.

I went to grammar but hubby didn't. Our kid passed the grammar tests but opted for a non-grammar in the end & he's thriving. Predicted grade 9s in all of his GCSEs. Happy as Larry.

Success/happiness etc for a child at secondary school is about SO much more than whether or not it's a grammar.

When your precious little darling is 9, it's impossible to conceive that they will BE the obnoxious teenager you pass on the street.

It just happens. You need to become wise to the reality of teens

I agree with you OP. In your situation I would homeschool.

You need to move house. Sorry.

My DCs are at the most brilliant state secondary in our area (South East).

Ds went to a school that was graded as requires improvement, it had a demographic of high percentage of children from council estates & pupils who got Pupil premium. Ds got good grades for his GCSE's, there were lots of pupils in his year got grades 8 & 9 for all subjects & the sixth form is the highest achieving in the city.

Ds went to an outstanding primary school & had a terrible time due to bullying, the staff were awful & the best day he had at that school was the day he was leaving. It doesn't matter what impression you get of a school, you will only really know what the school is like when your child goes there. If your child is hard working they will do well wherever they are.

I think a lot of it depends on the individual child. I would be happy to send my elder DD to our local state school because I know she would do well wherever she goes but I would only consider private education for my younger DD who struggles academically and socially and needs the smaller and more nurturing environment of a non-selective private school.

Hands up, successful secondary school teacher, with 4 adult children who all went to state schools and developed into successful and happy adults, achieving exam success that took them to university. I specifically chose a comprehensive school for my children, although 2 of the 4 would have passed the 12+. I saw the effects of single sex grammar & private schools on teenage girls - bullying, eating disorders, sexuality issues etc. In some grammar/private schools there can also be an over-reliance on examination success at the expense of the children's wellbeing. Post 16, many have no interest in children who will not achieve high A'level grades & progress to university. If you have independent, well balanced and self assured children then they'll cope in any school.

I just wanted to say thank you to your DD, @PickySlackTastic for articulating so beautifully something that has bothered me for 40 years. Another person who went through school in the 80s and 90s as a high achiever with undiagnosed ADHD salutes her.

I still remember my teacher in the last year of primary saying to the whole class ‘Raspberry’s project is full of information but it’s a total and utter mess’ and feeling so upset. I’ve never got rid of that feeling that my colouring and margins just made me a bad girl.

That isn't a typo. A typo is where you spell something incorrectly.

@SecondarySnob I wanted to say that I think you have taken some serious criticism (not least from me) on the chin here and I salute you for that. Your OP was somewhat tone deaf and definitely came across as snobby; if you had perhaps articulated what you said in your later posts about the reasons for your concerns and your DD's ADHD we might not have come down on you so hard.

Some great posts here from parents of ND children or ND adults themselves; I really hope things are better now than they were for some of you. My DD and DS1 are both ND in different ways and were well supported in a state secondary. Best of luck with your choices but remember you cannot shield your child forever. @Headteacher415 and @mbosnz have articulated well what I feel.

I should add that my single-sex educational issues were compounded because the uni I chose was full of ex-public school boys who had been educated in an all-boy boarding house bubble at Winchester and Marlborough - so they were as clueless as I was! I am sure all of this is very different now.
Very best of luck to you and your DD.

I posted earlier but just wanted to come back and say my DD13 has adhd and ASD. The best setting for her was an all girls private school with small class sizes. She is flourishing there.

It's all about the right setting for an individual child.

If she was NT and super confident the local secondary may well have worked well for her.

So that's the parents perspective.

A feminist perspective (which I also am) is that girls do academically better in single sex schools. The numbers on sexual assaults within mixed secondary schools over a three year period in the UK was over 5000 including over 500 rapes. These are only the ones that were reported.

And whilst 98% of sexual crimes are committed by males I'd say you should be looking at a single sex school for your bright ND DD.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

Yes exactly.

I intended to type "the children" and an 'm' got added to the end. Or perhaps I originally worded it as "them" and decided to change it to "the children" and forgot to remove the 'm'

But, even if I did say "them people" instead of "those people" that isn't the point of this thread and you're not helping anyone by picking on it.

Which school did you go to as I'll make sure to avoid it? I'd sooner my kids had friends who used English grammar incorrectly than were bullies.

Not BU, this is exactly our situation being in a non-grammar area with less than ideal state secondaries so we are now aiming for private school. Tutoring and keeping everything crossed that she gets in.

Ah thanks.

For the obvious reasons I NC for this.

The ND part of me is prone to over dramatic knee jerk actions - so that's a big part of the opening post.

Also - I've tried ND based posts in the past and they don't get the traffic. So having been on MN long enough to know wording something like a Daily Mail reader would get the thread some popularity I jumped in with both feet. (And my flame proof suit on.)

Very grateful I did. As apart from the couple of typo idiots even the harsher criticisms have helped me a lot.

But - I am a snob when it comes to my DCs. I want the best for them in every way. But it's figuring out what that best looks like that's proving difficult and I think it was easy to assume that private = best as it's a world I am clueless about. But from the outside seems much better.

I feel that state school didn't do me the best it could have so that made me think the alternative would help DD, who is just a little me, but a lot kinder and gentler and I don't want her broken.

I live in an area with rubbish state schools. The two closest (and as we’re in Scotland it’s a catchment based system) are in the bottom dozen in the country for results. There are very few resources for bright kids, nor for support for those with mild sen. Everything is put into firefighting and the environment is more a holding centre / social work department than focused on education. Don’t get me wrong, they do wonderful things supporting dc with horrible home lives, but older ds was drowning in that environment, and younger ds would never have coped.
I ended up home educating, and it was definitely the right choice for our family. Otherwise I think I would have needed to move (difficult in my personal situation) or (at least for ds1) aim for a scholarship to private school.

I think our perceptions are influenced heavily by our own experience. I am also ND (adhd), same for dd. I didn't have a diagnosis at school. Went to a bog standard state comp, but did really well there, got outstanding results despite my ND challenges, went to Cambridge, have enjoyed a very successful and rewarding career etc etc. I have never felt at all disadvantaged by my comprehensive school background - quite the contrary, actually, as it has given me much better insights into the lives of the people around me and a belief that my success has been founded on merit rather than on any unfair advantages gained as a result of going to a particular type of school. DD is on a similar trajectory and has gained immensely from being in a diverse socioeconomic environment. She has plenty of friends at private school, and I have plenty of friends with kids at private and selective state schools, and neither of us have seen any real advantages in either. The kids aren't any happier. They aren't more confident. They aren't more successful. They aren't better behaved. They aren't more rounded as individuals. They are just ordinary kids like all of her other friends.