To worry that no state, non-selective secondary schools are good enough.

[SecondarySnob]

I know I am BU. I know there will be loads of people who send their kids to the local comp and their kids do fine and get good results and aren't exposed to hideous language and behaviour daily.

But.

I can't see how that could happen having researched all of the local schools.

Oldest DD is 9yo. So this reality is suddenly hitting me.

We're in a non-Grammar area. (DH and I grew up in a different county and went to grammars)

There's a girls grammar 10 miles away which has its own entrance exam so that's where I'm keeping my fingers crossed for her.

I'm also trying to work out how we can afford private school.

Because I've looked at results, spoken to friends who work in local comps, had them kids pass me when out and about, seen them walking to and from school, seen posts on local Facebook pages.

And I just can't see how my DD would get through 5 years at any of them and achieve what she's capable of and come out happy and confident like she deserves to be.

I don't want her to get straight A*s but I do want her to feel comfortable and supported enough to achieve the best she can.

I know this will get flamed by most. As it sounds horribly horribly snobby. I guess my background of going to a school that expected a lot of us means I was sheltered from the reality of a lot of teenage life.

But I'm hoping there are some mums out there like me who are worried at how secondary schools are.

And if so how did you make it work for your kids? Private education? Moving house?

🤣 And there is no way that I would have wanted my dd going to a private school because I'd have been so worried about exposing her to kids with idiotic parents like this!

Thanks all.

Totally appreciate all of the replies. Needed a reality check as in a bit of a "schools are awful" echo chamber currently.

Will just clarify on the language.

I have zero issue with swearing. I swear a lot. And DC know swear words when they hear them and not to say them.

The hideous language I was referring too is the appalling and upsetting sexually aggressive language I've heard groups of teens saying. Along with what they expose each other to with their phones etc.

Really I think my concern is teenage boys with parents who aren't bothered about what the internet is teaching their children.

I think that's where my sudden interest in selective/single sex schools has come from. To try and shelter her the best I can from how scary the internet is and how children are reacting to then things they're seeing.

I guess in my mind a girls school full of girls with parents who (I hope) feel similar to me will be a safer environment.

And that that in turn would lead to a better education and experience.

My DD was at a top Girl's Independent school and hated it.
Bullying, low level nastiness and the feeling that the parents were paying so there were very little consequences for anyone's actions.

She moved to local comp and thrived.

A comparison she told once me sticks with me-
At her Independent in top set English the girls were asked what they read over the summer-not one girl would put her hand up to admit to reading-too uncool.

The same question in her top set in local Girl's Comp had girls raising their hands and waving them enthusiastically to share the books they were reading.

Thos obviously won't be the case in every Independent or Comp but just a suggestion that you mustn't assume one will be better because of it's presumed "status"

Lots of good comps out there.

She is on track for a First from a very good Uni and has just been accepted to do a Masters.

It can depend on your area. Where I live there is an outstanding state secondary and one 'good' as rated by Ofsted.I see the children on their way home from both schools and it is immediately obvious which of the two schools they attend.

Is moving house to an area with good state schools an option?

I agree that your DD will be exposed to swearing whichever school she attends, but that's a by product, the important thing is that she needs a good education.

There are plenty of excellent state schools, you just need to find one and live in the catchment area, making sure you are as close to the school as possible.

Plenty of good comps round here. There are always going to be some badly-behaved kids, and lots of loud, sweary but basically lovely kids. Without grammars creaming off of the top end, the badly-behaved ones are usually reasonably well-diluted in a good comp. What you see coming out at the end of the day doesn't necessarily reflect what they're like in school - they've been behaving all day and now they're letting off steam a bit.

DD is nearing the end of her time at our local comp. She's learned swear words (and now looks back at how naive she was when she didn't realise people were swearing) but doesn't usually use them in front of me and never in front of teachers, grandparents, strangers, etc. She's never been bullied, despite being bright, geeky, uninterested in appearance, etc. She's timid but her confidence has grown. She's got a great set of friends, and most of them are going to do very well at GCSE. They haven't ever had to do very much homework, but that's given them time for other interests, as has the fact that it only takes 15 minutes to walk to/from school.

You're a snob and also hopelessly naive.

Yea where I live ALL of the secondary’s have 3/4 ofsted ratings. Not even one ‘good’ one. I don’t even know where to start tbh.

Most of us don't have that luxury it's either state or no schooling
We also don't all live in London it's a bit ridiculous to write off then entire population of state schools due yo your "mates" anecdotal experience.

I live in a non grammar area and used to work with lots of surgeons, anaesthetists, dentists etc

A fair few paid for private education but the rest all moved close to 2 secondary schools in our county which achieved the best results and destinations for their students

When I married and had the DC I made sure we were in catchment for one of these schools to give our DC the best opportunities

DC1 had to leave due to disability and had a place at a private school paid for by an EHCP DC2 is just finishing said school

Both have excellent predicted grades on par with their peers, many peers have excellent destinations from their non selective secondary school

it doesn’t need to be a selective school in my opinion but having bright peers with great aspirations undoubtedly improves outcomes, so look for that school in your area

Anecdotally more self harm and eating disorders at girls selectives.

Your dd will come across arsehole males in life - do you want her to be unfamiliar and scared of them, or feel familiar enough with them to ignore them/flick them the v's...?

Do not hold private education up as the golden solution.

My ds is at a private school, now taking GCSEs. Bullying is rife. So are drugs. Teaching is variable. There are several excellent teachers. But there are also some severely overworked ones (who would be good if they had time). And then there are the ones who have their own problems to deal with and miss lesson after lesson after lesson. My ds has to take a GCSE next week - teacher missed 50% of Y11 lessons.

Overall, I would say that much of the "added" stuff is extra curricular. And kids get forced to do stuff that they either wouldn't choose to do or don't want to do, as well as the stuff that they do choose to do.

The grass might be a little greener, but it is still not that green. The bullying that my ds has encountered was utterly wicked.

Ha I spend time at a private boarding school in the early 00s on a scholarship. VERY VERY naive of you to think there wont be bad language or antics, teenagers are teenagers at the end of the day, regardless of socioeconomic standing.

Mine went into a non select academy comprehensive when we relocated here from NZ. Talk about an eye opener!

However, there are well behaved and badly behaved students at all schools. I haven't met very many young adults who weren't extremely well versed in the vernacular, nor learned about drugs.

I don't think cost or selectivity guarantees good mental health, or a good education. Look at the PM. How much money was wasted on that dolt's education?

My daughter got accepted into a select girls' grammar, and turned it down, because when we went and looked at it, she felt like it was a pressure cooker full of bunny boilers.

So much of it comes from attitudes, beliefs, and practises at home. One of the things my girls found most frustrating when they came over here, was how kids seemed to think they were already on the scrap heap, and could never amount to anything, because they were at an academy comp'. It was so sad.

My DD is headed for A's, A*s across the board, and has a conditional offer to a very good university in a highly competitive field. If you support your kids and their educational aspirations, and your kids are prepared to work, I've found the support, enthusiasm, and work outside their requirement that the teachers at our Comp', has been amazing.

It’s hard to say without knowing the schools

We use state comp and private and we’re really happy with the former. Dc has academic results and great friends.

But I think we’re lucky with the school in many ways but can’t compare

Where are you getting your information from regarding your local schools OP? The best sources are current parents and the school itself. It could be that the schools near you aren't very good, but don't assume that's the case universally. You could consider moving house for better schools, many do. Also, I know of a child in Y9 who killed himself last month due to massive academic pressure at his independent school, so don't assume there are no social problems at these types of school.

But the problems with phones and internet access are universal to all teens - you need to educate them on this yourself. I don’t know why you think going selective or private will stop them being exposed to undesirable content on the internet?

I'm always baffled by where people choose to live. Or rather that they don't plan ahead. Where do you live? Why do you live there? Why didn't you try and buy in an area with better schools in the last 15 years. Why didn't you move nearer to the grammar, which is 10 miles away.

Admittedly we chose Catholic, but all the schools here are ok. DH's huge family is all Catholic so as soon as I found out I was pregnant I put Ds1's and then DS2's name down at the local Catholic primary and then they automatically go to the catholic secondary which is superb and one of the top schools in the country. They have both thrived.

When you discussed what Primary and then secondary school you wanted your children to go to with your DH what did you decide all those years ago?

good results - missed a word

So it's only the parents of teenage boys that don't care about the Internet??
Some parents don't care full stop wether they have boys or girls .

Dd's state secondary has a wide demographic. She was identified as Gifted in Y7 and has had a load of opportunities. They really are expecting her to get 9s.

Most MN'ers care. Any bright child will thrive with supportive parents in a decent school. On my lovely MN thread, supporting our dc through A'level's and Uni choices, most dc are aiming for 3x A's at least.
Why shouldn't your dc achieve the same?

The hideous language I was referring too is the appalling and upsetting sexually aggressive language I've heard groups of teens saying. Along with what they expose each other to with their phones etc.

By definition, the kids hanging around in groups with nowhere else to go are always going to be the ones who appear to be the worst behaved. But if your local state school is anything like ours, with 200+ children per year group, the 5 to 6 in each year who are like this are the minority.

The thing about private schools is not that they're better etc. They do however, as a rule, offer more opportunities, better facilities etc. Which just smoothes and eases a child's experience in many cases. But like any school, the teaching quality and culture will vary and comes from management and a state school is as likely to be on top of this as a private school. Friends and family with children in private schools don't seem to get better teaching - but they do get a wider variety of sports and after school activities, more field trips, smaller classes. None of that stops bad behaviour.

My dd thrived in a coed comp environment. Yes, there were some stupid boys (and frankly some stupid girls as well!) but she never really experienced any problems. And some of the boys were lovely and became really close friends. She has always been adamant that she would not have wanted to be in a single sex school.

I would also add that being in coed didn't impact on her confidence in maths and science subjects in the slightest. Quite the contrary, if anything!

I can understand wanting to send your DD to a single sex school to protect her from sexual aggression, but I really wouldn't think she'd be any better off in a mixed grammar or independent. Just think of the horrific stories from top schools which girls were reporting last year on Everyone's Invited.

You sound precious. What the fxxk are you expecting here? Do some fxxking groundwork then, to get your dd into a good school.