Is Starmer seriously going to resign???

[Swayingpalmtrees]

I have been waiting for a thread to come up about this, but I can't see one to date. I can't believe Keir Starmer has now said he will resign (and Angela Rayner as well) Potentially leaving the Labour party with no leader at all!

Looking at the 'evidence' that is well known and has been published, it appears the Indian takeaway was pre ordered (due to its size) and pre planned according to the staff at the Indian and the leaked memo, it did include quite a number of people and bottles of beer etc and drinking. It was late into the night, so not work related, and no one is suggesting anyone continued to work afterwards as it was so late. I don't see how this is any different to the No10 arrangements! So how on earth will they avoid a fine??

Sir Keir's speech was so wobbly I actually thought he was resigning there and then, and although I appreciate the sentiments of integrity and honour, where on earth does that leave the LP with under two years to the election or less?

Who would replace him? Do we have any thoughts on a plan of any kind?

I am kind of aghast, we are in the middle of a European war, on the cusp of potentially WW3, I am not sure this is a responsible action given the seriousness of our predicament with Russia whom are threatening us on a weekly basis with nuclear war. At the very very least, we need a firm hand on the tiller, so to speak, we do not have time to be squabbling over beer and cheese.
AIBU?

Ordering take away wasn’t illegal. And I always order in advance as otherwise you can wait hours. That’s no proof that it was “a party”. Unlike sending out invitations to a byob party like the Tories did. There was no garden party for Keir with partners invited - like at number 10. So how is it “the same”?

And to answer your question errrm.. yes he has said he would resign if he received a fine, so he will. And so will Angela Raynor, it’s called having integrity.

They seem confident that they can prove they were working late into the evening. That should be sufficient, though it is a bit of a gamble. I don't think it being "pre-ordered" is relevant. They planned to work.

I think that given how adamant Keir was that Boris and Rishi should resign when fined, he doesn't have a lot of choice. Hopefully it will pay off! And Keir's hand is not "on the tiller". Unfortunately.

Prepared to be proven completely wrong here but I think the fact he's made that statement means he's pretty certain it won't happen.

It's quite a smart move, it just makes Johnson look more and more like an untrustworthy bounder.

Johnson is stuffed either way. If there's no fine, Starmer can maintain his moral high ground on the issue. If there is a fine, and he resigns, it puts incredible pressure on not just Johnson but also Sunak (who I think this tactic is primarily aimed at, actually) to resign too.

The whole 'who cares about wine/beer and cheese/curry' line is straight out of the CCHQ playbook. Of course it's not the only issue, but it is an issue.

I guess a key question would be whether Keir's interior designer was there.

He and the labour party have always maintained that he continued to work afterwards. Is that not what the memo said too? I haven’t seen it.

Already a long thread on this, with predictably 'lively' debate: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4545348-to-think-labour-are-hypocrites

I think he’s very carefully worded what he said - he’ll resign if fined. I suspect the likelier outcome is the Barnard Castle outcome where there’s not enough evidence to pursue anything and there will be no fine. So he can stay, but undeniably tarnished 🤷‍♀️ I don’t think it’s a resigning offence, particularly given that our actual Prime Minister is guilty if the same crime in a much less ambivalent way. But having positioned himself so clearly as the architect of law and order in direct comparison to the corruption of the Tory party, I feel like he’s lost a large part of his platform with even the suspicion and questions around this.

He said he would resign if fined. I think he would - but not sure that he will be fined.

I dont think he or any party leader should resign during a war in Europe. I think his threat to do so is about how it looks, and not about what is best for the UK.

Yes, YABU. If they do resign (and he must feel pretty confident that he won't have to), then there will be a stand-in leader until the party elects a new one (which will probably be Wes Streeting who seems to be everywhere at the moment). I doubt they will be leaderless long enough to bring the country into a state of crisis...
Putin, as with all small men, is posturing and trying to make out his bits are bigger than everyone else's - if he was going to nuke the world, he would have done it by now
More to the point, why is the person actually convicted of lying to parliament and breaking the law not actually being decent enough to resign? Ah yes, it's because he is a sexually incontinent arse who gets voted in by the readers of the DM because he was an oxbridge boy and 'his bumbling is rather endearing...'

I don't see how this is any different to the No10 arrangements!
No cake
No interior designer
No DJ
No suitcases full of booze
No drunks in the garden smashing up the kid's swing

We are NOT 'in the middle of a European war'!!

It could be a public relations tactic

FWIW polling shows the story has had zero effect on Starmer's personal ratings (unlike partygate for johnson) which suggests voters feel comfortable separating the the degrees of the alleged offences. This may not even be another Barnard Castle as Cummings admitted that was leisure whereas this is more work-related.

If he gets fined he has no option but to resign given how persistent he's been with trying to force Johnson to resign (rightly so).

I dont think he or any party leader should resign during a war in Europe.

Given that the war in Ukraine looks likely to drag on for a long time yet, do you really think we should keep Starmer and Johnson till it's done?

France held elections. Was that wrong too? Should democracy be put on hold?

I think that he is fairy confident that he will not be fined.

He's done nothing any different to what we did where I work. Every Tuesday we ordered in a chippy take away and every Friday we ordered in a breakfast. There is a cool box in the office with bottled beers in for people who are working late or just to have at the end of a hard week. (so long as no-one is driving.)

I’ve frequently worked that late in my career and management have always pre-arranged food and drinks. You can’t work til midnight and beyond without dinner, it’s fairly standard to anticipate that your staff may need to work late and therefore may need sustenance. He won’t need to resign: Labour have the receipts to prove they were working.

If there is a fine, and he resigns, it puts incredible pressure on not just Johnson but also Sunak (who I think this tactic is primarily aimed at, actually) to resign too
Seriously doubt that, neither of them give a shite.

I agree able that we have a war raging in Europe, having a coherent opposition party is incredibly important at the moment. Starmer may not be PM but the opposition are expected to partake in many decisions made across all parties to do with security etc.

I think there is a very real chance of a fine actually.

There are photos of the people drinking inside, there is evidence of Indian food to the tune of 200gbp being pre ordered, so clearly for a large gathering at least. How would the police not fine for this? The memo concludes the party was organised in advance, they were drinking and there are photos to support.

I am wondering how the police can come to any other conclusion given the rules at the time?

@Swayingpalmtrees it could be a double bluff as in making the Police aware so they sway their decision … on the other hand he might be looking for an out.

If I were caught drinking bottle of beer at work, I would be sacked immediately. They were clearly not working, it was 10pm at night!

Yes that is bang on, I do think Starmer is looking for a way out.

I think Ann Widdicombe's take on it is probably the most sensible - boils down to "Shut up and get on with the day job!"

What she said was that nobody needs resign, not even Starmer. "The country has many more important things to think about.'

She goes on to say pretty much what I thought, Starmer was a twat for making such a fuss knowing he was vulnerable to the same accusations. Having made that fuss, having built the pedestal upon which he now stands, he might be pushed out anyway. Not for the event but for breaching his own 'code of conduct', the thing he makes his stand on every time he speaks.

All in all that's just more of the same old same old piss poor politicking!

Do you work a very standard 9-5, OP? Can you really not see that some people work late, or different hours?

How else do you get a large takeaway, if you know you are going to be working late, except by pre-ordering?