Is Starmer seriously going to resign???

[Swayingpalmtrees]

I have been waiting for a thread to come up about this, but I can't see one to date. I can't believe Keir Starmer has now said he will resign (and Angela Rayner as well) Potentially leaving the Labour party with no leader at all!

Looking at the 'evidence' that is well known and has been published, it appears the Indian takeaway was pre ordered (due to its size) and pre planned according to the staff at the Indian and the leaked memo, it did include quite a number of people and bottles of beer etc and drinking. It was late into the night, so not work related, and no one is suggesting anyone continued to work afterwards as it was so late. I don't see how this is any different to the No10 arrangements! So how on earth will they avoid a fine??

Sir Keir's speech was so wobbly I actually thought he was resigning there and then, and although I appreciate the sentiments of integrity and honour, where on earth does that leave the LP with under two years to the election or less?

Who would replace him? Do we have any thoughts on a plan of any kind?

I am kind of aghast, we are in the middle of a European war, on the cusp of potentially WW3, I am not sure this is a responsible action given the seriousness of our predicament with Russia whom are threatening us on a weekly basis with nuclear war. At the very very least, we need a firm hand on the tiller, so to speak, we do not have time to be squabbling over beer and cheese.
AIBU?

You are either choosing not to get it lonely or you actually don't get it.

Starmer and the rest of the party need to PROVE that they were working collectively post beer and Indian at 10pm - they need to PROVE they were having a break. This is the issue, they did not carry on working and returned to the hotel.

Therefore this dinner and drinks can NOT be considered a 'work break' because it was a post working dinner and drinks party, because everyone went back to the hotel afterwards. Therefore the reasons stretching their legs/having a break/everyone deserves to eat or the deflection simply does not and can not stand up as a defence.

The police know this which is why they resisted reopening the case
Starmers knows this, as his legal experience informs him that the evidence does not stack up

So who is primed to replace him???

That is the question?

Emily Thornberry?

I certainly hope the NHS staff who were working (I know, working!) after 10pm were able to stop for food too, before carrying on working. I’m wondering if the OP has ever worked a day of her life?

if this was a party (it clearly isn’t!) it looks like a shit one.

I don’t know if he will get a fine but I agree with the rest

As former DPP he is better able than most to judge when he's broken the law. He only mentioned resigning because he's confident he won't have to. He was election campaigning, he'll have been up working for hours after 10pm.

Funny how you're untroubled by the hypocrisy if Durham fine Starmer, given their reason for not fining Dominic Cummings is that their policy is not to issue fines retrospectively.

You're just making up rules now. There was no rule that said people couldn't work late. No rule that said people were not allowed to go to work. No limit on the number of people at work at any time. No rule that said you can't break fur food or drink.
Ah, remember the glory days of lockdown one and everyone on here making up the rules? Cake is not an essential! You can’t order online deliveries! Only one hour outside the house! Don’t sneeze in your front garden!

Isn't he an extremely experienced lawyer? I'm sure he has a good idea of the risk of being fined and reckons its unlikely.

All those attending the big garden party did NOT get fined, unless Johnson has been fined twice & we have not been told?

It's an absolute gift to the Tories. It may NOT be the same as the No10 event but if you're relying on semantics after constantly lambasting the PM for such things it's not good.

Personally, I feel Starmer has been a fairly useless opposition leader. They may have won a few London councils on god awful turnouts but when you're losing former mining areas to the Tories, you are not making progress.

@Swayingpalmtrees You're going to have to at least pretend to engage with the many, many people talking about their own experiences having food ordered in when working late if you want to be convincing. And of course you know from your own experience that working late on a political campaign is extremely normal - though perhaps you're not used to seeing your leader putting the hours in?

Nothing in the law, at any point at all, said that any work had to be "essential". This is something that was misunderstood by so many from the start.

So, no, no-one has to prove the work was essential.

You are allowed to eat during or at the end of your shift.

There are no grounds to avoid a fine, given no work was conducted during or after the dinner and drinks party.

What is the point in saying something like this when you (and the rest of us) have no idea whether work was conducted? Presumably that is part of what the police are currently looking at.
They were working, they then ate, it's hardly inconceivable that work conversations just continued while that happened. This was an campaign related day - so I imagine a fair amount of work is just talking through things, rather than a more tangible "I was obviously still working, here are the physical things I made".
I've worked in jobs where takeaways have been ordered late in the evening, and while eating work is still discussed, even if people aren't physically sitting at laptops typing away. Does that count as working?

I'm not saying they definitely were working by the way. Just that if you can so confidently say "well the police have to fine them as no work took place" you could probably save the police time by letting them know how you're so sure.

Besides, he's said he'll resign if fined - how are people still complaining at that? Surely that's what you want?

here is time stamped evidence of work continuing until after 1am

We need a link to that post Ilovesooty and Starmer is able to prove that they all stayed at the venue post 10pm drinks and dinner can he?

This is simply untrue and you know it. Starmer has already confirmed he went straight back to the hotel at 10pm, they have already confirmed those facts that no work continued collectively post beer/Indian.

Starmer sitting in his bed sending emails at 1am can not be used as a defence, because the police will have expected work to continue in the venue with the rest of the group if the defence is going to be a 'work related' break.

what they will need to prove is that they collectively continued working afterwards

During surely? Not specifically afterwards.

the police will have expected work to continue in the venue with the rest of the group if the defence is going to be a 'work related' break.
Citation needed

I hope so

They were working, they then ate, it's hardly inconceivable that work conversations just continued while that happened.

That justification could be applied to some of the situations Boris was fined for though.

Is OP from CCHQ? The tone of the posts is very weird.

He doesn't need to PROVE anything, that's not how the law works.

The police and CPS have to PROVE he did, he has to defend it.

Where have you got the idea they need to prove they stayed together & worked collectively after? That has never been a rule for anything.

I think Starmer has had enough and wants an 'out'. I think Sunak will resign eventually too. He's lost his shot at the leadership and is being pressured by the backbenchers to do things he thinks financially reckless. A highly paid job outside politics, doing interesting things and being well though of by his peers, must look v appealing right now.

I don't see how this is any different to the No10 arrangements!

• This was one event, not 20.
• The planning documents show covid regulations being considered.
• Nobody was fimed saying they needed to keep quiet about it because they broke regulations.
• There was no music or dancing.
• A beer and takeaway is a bit different (in terms of whether work can realistically occur) from tables laden with booze and a cake.
• It was for specific, documented purposes; not to say thankyou to staff, for Boris' birthday, for christmas, to celebrate the newly decorated flat, because the weather was so nice, or any of the other reasons given for Boris' parties.

If Starmer is fined then he should resign because it's the honorable thing to do when you break the laws you voted in, but there is a world of difference between what he's done and what Johnson did.

When Party gate happened, Starmer should have just said "It's a Police matter, and we have bigger things to worry about", but instead he saw it as a chance to batter Boris. He missed a great real opportunity to show leadership.

He also said Boris "should resign because he's being investigated...", so surely the same applies to him?

It's bit worrying if that's his understanding of due process.

My prediction is, he will get fined and go and Momentum will take Labour into obscurity.

Working, with beer? OK then. I'd be sacked if I worked while drinking beer, never mind resign with "integrity".

It was late into the night, so not work related, and no one is suggesting anyone continued to work afterwards as it was so late. They haven't suggested that, they have stated it as a fact. Have you never worked after 10 pm. It isn't that unusual.