Is Starmer seriously going to resign???

[Swayingpalmtrees]

I have been waiting for a thread to come up about this, but I can't see one to date. I can't believe Keir Starmer has now said he will resign (and Angela Rayner as well) Potentially leaving the Labour party with no leader at all!

Looking at the 'evidence' that is well known and has been published, it appears the Indian takeaway was pre ordered (due to its size) and pre planned according to the staff at the Indian and the leaked memo, it did include quite a number of people and bottles of beer etc and drinking. It was late into the night, so not work related, and no one is suggesting anyone continued to work afterwards as it was so late. I don't see how this is any different to the No10 arrangements! So how on earth will they avoid a fine??

Sir Keir's speech was so wobbly I actually thought he was resigning there and then, and although I appreciate the sentiments of integrity and honour, where on earth does that leave the LP with under two years to the election or less?

Who would replace him? Do we have any thoughts on a plan of any kind?

I am kind of aghast, we are in the middle of a European war, on the cusp of potentially WW3, I am not sure this is a responsible action given the seriousness of our predicament with Russia whom are threatening us on a weekly basis with nuclear war. At the very very least, we need a firm hand on the tiller, so to speak, we do not have time to be squabbling over beer and cheese.
AIBU?

And yes, polling shows the public don't give a shit about this

Quite the contrary, people do care very much about hypocrisy when they see it.

To answer your title, of course he will resign if fined. He wouldn't say so otherwise, it would be completely ridiculous. There's no way he said "if fined, I'll resign" while thinking "nah I won't, hopefully no one will notice". He'd be dead in the water if he didn't resign.

But I'd be surprised if he said it without being pretty confident that he wouldn't be fined.

I think he nailed his colours to the mast long before beergate and unlike other nameless politicians understands integrity. I hope that if he is fined he keeps his word and resigns.

sadly I think BJ&Co won’t care about what that exposes about them and are brazen enough to turn a display of honour into something to scoff at. It’s very sad to watch what this countries parliament has turned into.

Regarding ‘wars in Europe’, cost of living crisis, climate emergency etc. being a barrier to removing politicians from office. Raise your bloody standards, an untrustworthy or incompetent leader is worthless in a crisis. Certainly internationally our leading politicians need to be credible not a bunch of second hand car salesmen.

If you’re going to be crooked in politics you at least have to be good at it.

What is the point of a politician if they are not responsible for keeping their citizens alive and well.

Right. The actual data versus your partisanship.

Sorry, but I'll stick with the former.

I would be surprised if he gets fined. Ordering a takeaway whilst you work late into the evening is pretty common in lots of jobs.
Lots of offices in London have beer fridges or rooftop bars with free drinks for staff on certain evenings.

My point is I think he is definitely going to be fined.

I don't know how Starmer imagines he will avoid it, there are photos and memos and personal accounts confirming the fact there was no work completed during the dinner, and no work completed afterwards. It starts and ends with that fact. So it can no longer be considered a work related break? The beer drinking compounds this.

That is the issue the police now have. A work related break for food would mean that work continued after the dinner and drinks, and it did not.

I couldn't care less about these 'parties' of either political party, although I do understand why some people are upset. The worst thing about the Labour one is the lying about Angela Rayner being there. I thought the police had said a few weeks ago that they wouldn't be fining any Labour party members though.

In my job - if we work late on a project we're ordered food to the office and there are beers in the Facilities cupboard we'd be able to take a limited number of.

While that's true of me too, it doesn't apply to the vast majority of jobs.

The PP is right, most people would not be familiar with working after curry and a beer. It sounds like horseshit.

whether they think he should resign over it or not is another thing. I doubt enough people care about the exact status of what happened post 9pm, post beer. But Starmer's made his choice.

The central argument and defence is incredibly flawed, Starmer will know this too. His voice was shaky and uncertain and all he was keen to do was to make a point, that at least he is a man of his word, but personally a man of his legal experience will know that the police are very unlikely to turn a blind eye to the dinner and drinks, and if they do they will be accused of corruption and dishonesty.

There are no grounds to avoid a fine, given no work was conducted during or after the dinner and drinks party.

Starmer is obviously confident he can show he did continue working, which will be pretty easy if he sent even 1 work related email

I don't think he'll be fined. This was a stitch up from the start. The Tories put pressure on Durham police to investigate. It has backfired on them now as Starmer has said he'll resign if fined. This would be even worse optics for Johnson so my guess is they'll tell the police to back off from a fine. This will leave Starmer with a dent in his reputation but will draw a line under everything.

They were not 'working' at the time, they can clearly be seen standing around and chatting, drinking beer.

Breaking for food during work would include sitting at the desk for five minutes and eating and for most companies a soft drink. There would be no need to stand around in a group drinking beer if you are claiming to be working!!
Oh god, you’re Jack Warner standing outside the writing room yelling if you can’t hear them on their typewriters. You really can’t conceive that:

• They were standing around talking about work
• They were standing around taking a quick food and stretch break after having been hunched over documents and speeches for several hours
• People have different jobs and work expectations and that yes, a surgeon couldn’t stand over a patient and swig beer, or a 9-5 admin role wouldn’t work til midnight, but plenty of industries do

What's the definition of 'working' anyway?

Does checking email count? Responding to an email? Reviewing comms? What would be enough work to count as work?

its all getting a bit farcical

What a load of partisan crap OP, they were working then they had some food.

It's not anything like as bad as multiple boozy parties with music, dancing etc in Downing St. Which mixed people from outside government with multiple teams working within government. They should have been siloed off to make sure everyone supposedly running the country didn't come down with Covid at once.

I think Boris Johnson should resign because he's taken a huge amount of cash from Russian donors, but one way or another he's finished.

There seems to be a lot of naivete on the working hours of Westminster higher-ups and their advisors/assistants, where stopping before midnight would count as 'an early one'.

They were not 'working' at the time, they can clearly be seen standing around and chatting, drinking beer

oh fgs when you’re eating your lunch at work, are you still using a computer, or writing, or serving customers, or whatever it is you do, at the same time?

Of course you don’t, you stop and eat.

It is going to take a lot more than one email sent from his hotel bed nancy he will need to prove the entire group continued to work together at the venue post beer at 10pm.

That is the point, and they didn't! And no one is suggesting that they did, least of all those present at the dinner party.

It has already been confirmed they returned to the hotel.

A works break is a break from work, what they will need to prove is that they collectively continued working afterwards, and indeed the work was 'essential' which is also questionable - as most meetings were taking place on zoom at that time. Social distancing was not observed due to the size of the room.

I think he has a big problem, and by extension the LP could be thrown into crisis.

Loads of jobs involve eating and drinking alcohol in the evenings on occasion. Mine does.

The fine that Boris has been given though is EXACTLY the same, if not slightly less so. He was out at a school visit in the morning, came back to the office, where all his own staff were working, people he worked with all and every day. Had a piece of cake and a drink, then sat down with the self same people for a cabinet meeting. His "party" was a break in the middle of the day between meetings.

The big garden party after work, was obviously against the rules and all those attending got fined.

I personally don't get care who gets fined, but I do care that the same rules have to apply whether you are in Durham or London. By the way, I don't think Keir should resign either, I think he has just painted himself into a corner, and the far left will take the opportunity with glee.

That is your workplace. In my workplace it is very common to have a bottle of beer as long as you are not driving or operating machinery etc.

And LOTS of people work after 10pm at night.

I actually think Keir doesn't want the job anymore. This is a way of getting out.

You're just making up rules now. There was no rule that said people couldn't work late. No rule that said people were not allowed to go to work. No limit on the number of people at work at any time. No rule that said you can't break fur food or drink.

As fir jobs where you can drink and work afterwards - any financial services job, frankly. And construction, the drinking culture is massive. I've been in several jobs where the kitchen had beer fridges.

And your assertion that they can't have been working because it was 9pm (clutch your pearls dear) is hilarious! It was in the run up to the election, they work all night!

Also, it was 2021, not 2020 which is when the No10 parties were, the rules were different. The rules (law!) that the police will need to reference.

Of course he's not "looking for an out", how ridiculous. And of course we can have leadership changes when there's a war, there's always a war somewhere. And there'd be a caretaker leader while a leadership election was run. Not a big deal at all.

There is time stamped evidence of work continuing until after 1am.

And the OP and subsequent posts are ridiculous.

There are so many differences between a late night work dinner (and yes, a dinner with a local MP and her team after a day’s campaigning with said team in a large space suitable for social distancing does not scream party to me) and multiple, flagrant breaches of the rules in the first weeks of the pandemic and onwards are innumerable. I’m glad Starmer has said he will resign if fined, however I don’t think he will be as the evidence is just not there (despite the best efforts of the son of a right wing journo).

I’m also pleased that Starmer is taking personal responsibility and not placing the blame on advisers and staffers such as with Johnson and the ‘resignation’ of Allegra Stratton. It would have been easy for him to say he had no idea it was breaking the rules and he was merely assaulted with a curry…

The whole thing reeks of government desperation and I think a lot of people can see that.