Is Starmer seriously going to resign???

[Swayingpalmtrees]

I have been waiting for a thread to come up about this, but I can't see one to date. I can't believe Keir Starmer has now said he will resign (and Angela Rayner as well) Potentially leaving the Labour party with no leader at all!

Looking at the 'evidence' that is well known and has been published, it appears the Indian takeaway was pre ordered (due to its size) and pre planned according to the staff at the Indian and the leaked memo, it did include quite a number of people and bottles of beer etc and drinking. It was late into the night, so not work related, and no one is suggesting anyone continued to work afterwards as it was so late. I don't see how this is any different to the No10 arrangements! So how on earth will they avoid a fine??

Sir Keir's speech was so wobbly I actually thought he was resigning there and then, and although I appreciate the sentiments of integrity and honour, where on earth does that leave the LP with under two years to the election or less?

Who would replace him? Do we have any thoughts on a plan of any kind?

I am kind of aghast, we are in the middle of a European war, on the cusp of potentially WW3, I am not sure this is a responsible action given the seriousness of our predicament with Russia whom are threatening us on a weekly basis with nuclear war. At the very very least, we need a firm hand on the tiller, so to speak, we do not have time to be squabbling over beer and cheese.
AIBU?

It was late into the night, so not work related, and no one is suggesting anyone continued to work afterwards as it was so late.

They've produced proof that they did indeed continue to work afterwards. It really is quite common when electioneering, hence the fact they built it into the timetable.

"So, he'll be fined and resign. Im not sure where your outrage is coming from"

The OPs outrage is coming from the knowledge that he may not be fined.

I suspect they're actually the same tory hq poster who haunts this forum, just with countless name changes. Very much the same 'never mention johnson but anything the opposition does is terrible' energy.

In most large corporate companies food is provided not so that you continue working afterwards but because you have worked sufficiently late that it would be unreasonable or impractical for you to travel home and be able to pick up food/cook. In more than one place I have worked this is 8pm. If you work until 8pm you can order in on the company. Sometimes, this would be when you finish and you would take it with you; sometimes a number of people might pool and sit in the canteen space and have their food together with or without a beer (which is available). They might then go home, or they might carry on working.

Whilst this might not be a practice everyone is aware of or that other professions such as nursing etc don't do it is by the by. It is a practice, and it is actual policy in lots of places. The places where it hasn't been actual policy have done this in my experience because it is a nice and decent thing to do when people are working long hours.

The onus is not on working after the meal, it is on the fact that they have worked until a sufficiently late time to warrant the meal.

The damage has already been done in my view.

People can see the photos of Starmer drinking and smiling - not working - inside with a large group and eating Indian, before sauntering back to the hotel. That is what will stay with them. They have since learned that this was all organised in advance with a memo stating 'Dinner at Miners Hall' which is an invitation to all intents and purposes.

It is clear as day what they were doing, more fool anyone attempting a smoke screen.

Resigning if was all so innocent looks a little heavy handed? If he genuinely believed it to be innocent why not stand by his claims? Regardless of fining or police action.

Why are people getting so hung up on the idea that it was 9 or 10 at night? Lots of us in jobs that appear to be 9-5 have work events at night. I'm quite often working well beyond 10. I think it's entirely credible that they went back to work afterwards. I don't think this is odd at all. And I like to have something to eat if I'm working that late.

They've produced proof that they did indeed continue to work afterwards

Where is the link that proves that????

Memo? Do you mean the heavily redacted meeting agenda? Because honestly, who would have a meeting without providing the participants with an agenda and approximate timings? I worked in the civil service for years and never once typed up an agenda or provided a schedule, we used to just wing it. Show up when you want, present your items whenever you want, leave when you want.

I am not 'outraged' at all, but I am slightly puzzled how resigning in the middle of what is brewing up to be the biggest war of our time is helpful in the least.

I absolutely believe he will be fined, because the optics are so bad and the public won't buy a white wash.

Who on earth would replace him? That is what I am concerned about.

I’m glad to say I think the British public are far far more intelligent than you give them credit for OP. They see this ‘equivalence’ as the bullshit it is! Boris Johnson was wrong, very wrong. Starmer was not as the police will find in due course. Starmer knows this hence yesterday’s pledge.

People can see the photos of Starmer drinking and smiling - not working - inside with a large group and eating Indian, before sauntering back to the hotel.
Show me the laws against smiling while working, or smiling during a pandemic. Ditto the laws against sauntering.

Honestly, eat a spicy pakora and calm down.

Well he should, he's completely useless and labour will never win with him at the helm (and for that reason I hope he doesn't resign!)

People can see the photos of Starmer drinking and smiling - not working - inside with a large group and eating Indian, before sauntering back to the hotel. That is what will stay with them. They have since learned that this was all organised in advance with a memo stating 'Dinner at Miners Hall' which is an invitation to all intents and purposes.

Well here is one person who doesn’t see that as an invitation and does not have that image sitting with them.

A Prime Minister having such a weak grip on his own office that his principle private secretary is organising BYOB drinks parties and acts as an apologist for that culture - that sits with me.

Because let’s be real, it’s not exactly about the parties is it? It’s about what the response and intentions behind them say about our leaders’ characters. And Johnson’s ducking and diving, non-existent relationship with the truth and willingness to blame those junior to him are not the personality traits I welcome in the leader of our country.

Whilst this might not be a practice everyone is aware of or that other professions such as nursing etc don't do it is by the by.

This isn't actually by the by.

while everything you say is familiar to people who work in certain types of corporate environments, there are plenty whose working practises are a million miles away from this. Traditional Labour heartlands will be full of people who this is true of and Starmers position won't sound particularly credible to many.

So even if he doesn't get fined, his reputation will suffer in those areas where he most needs to win support.

I’m glad to say I think the British public are far far more intelligent than you give them credit for OP. They see this ‘equivalence’ as the bullshit it is!

This^

According to the press, an email log and evidence has been provided to the police, rather than being published for random strangers on the internet.

The police investigation will look into proof that work was conducted during and after the drinks and dinner if the defence of a work related break is to be believed, and yes the Labour Party will have to provide proof. A few emails fired off at 1am won't cut it.

The underlying issue here is one of fairness and justice.
If you are going to fine one political party for food and drink consumption in a group etc then you have to apply the same measure to the other party.

There is no reason why the party should have happened at all, the safest decision would be for all members to return to the hotel and safely order room service. They choose to organise the beers, they choose to organise a group dinner - no collective work happened during or after... that is the core issue.

A fine is coming. For sure.

The rules at the time allowed for work-related gatherings.

How does £200 for Indian food plus drinks equate to "a large gathering at least"? Even at £10 a head (which would be very modest) that's only 20 people. Organising it in advance simply demonstrates that it was planned as a work event. Drinking doesn't make it any less of a work event.

A further factor is that this was part of the electoral democratic process. The police would be treading on very dangerous ground indeed if they want to say that what a major political party deemed necessary by way of preparations for an election was unlawful. Has anyone actually investigated what the other candidates were doing over the relevant period?

It's grandstanding—more Starmer smoke and mirrors; no substance.

Working? If his job is the MP for Holborn, in London, what aspect of doing that job caused him to be in Durham?

NO SMILING ALLOWED AT WORK!!!!

Er, the job of being Leader of the Opposition...

During WW1 we had two Prime Ministers and two during WW2. Keir Starmer isn't the Prime Minister but even if he was, so what? We're not actually at war and there is a precedent set for changing leader when we actually are.

I think Starmer would have been wise to wait until the second police investigation has been concluded before making a decision and a statement.

Now most of us are simply waiting for him to go, and worried about the next leader and who it might be.

"while everything you say is familiar to people who work in certain types of corporate environments, there are plenty whose working practises are a million miles away from this. Traditional Labour heartlands will be full of people who this is true of and Starmers position won't sound particularly credible to many."

I'm sure the proverbial salt of the earth miners in their flat caps can tell the difference between a working dinner and full-on party. They may not vote Labour for other reasons but let's give them some credit.

The local elections.... He is the Labour leader and, like all political parties, there was an election campaign going on.