Friend drinking while pregnant

[lemondrop72]

Long term friend. Her first baby.

She has said a few times how she has got really upset with her partner or other friends who have been drinking alcohol while they've been out together because she feels like she can't join in the fun and isn't on the same "level".

She has text on a few occasions recently with a photo of a glass of wine or a cider etc while out saying "just the one 😉".
I don't want to sound patronising and it's none of my business because she is an adult. I never really respond to the messages because I don't want to make out I support drinking in pregnancy.
She messaged again the other day saying she had had "a few" the day before and felt really hungover. Now I'm starting to be to be a little concerned that one has turned into a few and I don't know if I should say something?

For the record, I have had two babies and she often asks my advise on pregnancy and babies etc.

Like I say it's probably none of my business but would you leave her to it or should I say I don't think it's a good idea to be drinking during pregnancy?

I'm sorry but some of your body autonomy does get out to one side when pregnant.

Check out the news from America today and you'll see what a terrifyingly slippy slope that kind of thinking is.

The line is birth - once the baby is out of your body.

Anyone else we should section? Women with gestational diabetes maybe so we can monitor their diet better? Women who do stressful jobs? Women who go horse riding as a hobby?

Anyone else we should section? Women with gestational diabetes maybe so we can monitor their diet better? Women who do stressful jobs? Women who go horse riding as a hobby?

Women who take non essential car journeys? Always a chance that you'd harm the baby in an accident.

It does not!

Isn't it obvious where the line is? When it leave your body and is another person. Not before.
You've often wondered that, have you? Any other facist tendencies?

I'm sorry but some of your body autonomy does get out to one side when pregnant. I've often wondered why we don't section addicts during pregnancy to prevent harm to an innocent baby.

Bloody hell. Blessed be the fruit and all that.

I'm sorry but i think it is indeed anybody's business to speak up for an unborn baby who can't speak up for themselves. Ut is total neglect before her child is even born.

I’m interested to know what bodily autonomy I’d be giving up in pregnancy @Brieandcamembert

Care to elaborate?

I'm pregnant and wouldn't even let a drop pass my lips, pregnancy is a blessing. Just my opinion there.

@JulyDreams

well done you 👼

you sound insufferable

also pregnancy isn’t always a blessing, obviously

I don’t think pregnancy is any less of a blessing if you do have a rare, small glass of wine.

@Brieandcamembert

Nope, a woman’s bodily autonomy “does not go to one side” when pregnant. Soz. 😄

I had the odd drink (literally a handful) during my pregnancies.
Research has has shown thst a small ammount of alcohol in pregnancy is not damaging.
The problem is so many people are unable to determine a SMALL amount, the NHS play it safe by imposing a blanket restriction rather thsn trustimg individuals often cloudy judgement. They choose a narrative that enforces their message.

@KimikosNightmare

“I really can't get my head round why anyone would want to feed half a bottle of champagne to an 8 month feotus. You wouldn't do it to baby born at 8 months or a full term baby.”

cos it’s not remotely the same. Mother drinking it when pregnant is not the same as putting champagne into mouth of a baby now is it

She is not your 'friend' OP, she is a cunt of the highest order sending mocking texts about booze when your mum died from alcoholism.

Who the actual fuck does this?

As for drinking in pregnancy, it's just another little sick joke of the universe that people like her breezily reproduce with absolute zero thought or regard for their child's wellbeing.

"Women who take non essential car journeys? Always a chance that you'd harm the baby in an accident."

Oh FFS. Now pregnant women can't get in a car.

I think you totally missed what that poster was getting at.

@MissusMaisel
@RampantIvy

"It's not a defensive answer. It doesn't matter what you feel, a foetus is not a child, and it is not child abuse. "

A child can be put on the Child Protection Register before birth.

A foetus cannot be technically murdered as they are not considered to be an independent being under the criminal law - but they can be protected.

I don’t understand a few of the arguments on the thread.

1. no a foetus isn’t a baby. But if you are planning on continuing your pregnancy you know it will become a baby once it’s born. So if you do things like take risks with alcohol intake (and I think we can all agree that excessive consumption is a risk, even if we can’t agree on minimal/moderate consumption), or inject heroin or smoke crack or whatever, you are obviously creating a scenario in which there is a high chance you will give birth to a baby with health problems. Of course that’s morally repugnant.

2. the idea of telling a friend who keeps bringing up her drinking to you that you personally don’t agree with it cannot be compared to “policing someone’s pregnancy”, leading the dystopian scenario some posters are laying out. It’s just telling a friend your opinion. It’s not even really unsolicited as they keep mentioning it!

3. posters mentioning how much they drank during pregnancies are missing the point. Yeh, YOUR child was fine. Statistically that’s often not the case with these high levels of alcohol consumption. Medical advice has also changed and we should strive to follow that advice when we know better. My mother smoked during her pregnancies and we were all a healthy weight and fine - that doesn’t mean smoking in pregnancy is acceptable.

Totally agree with you @Giraffesandbottoms

I found what might be the link MrsTerryPratchett was citing as evidence that the "pearl clutches" were making a fuss about this and that studies showed the children of moderate drinkers had better results than children of total abstainers

If it is the correct one, it says what guessed it would.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/18/drinking-moderation-pregnancy-baby-development

"However, we also found that the women who moderately drank compared to women who didn't drink tended to be more middle-class
"They were more socially advantaged. Having a middle-class mum compared to having a working-class mum is likely to advance a child in a lot of ways
"They may have better balance, they might do better at school. Having middle-class parents has advantages to a child that are nothing to do with alcohol."

I question how much of the advice around total abstinence is based on the fact that those in the NHS have such a dim view of women's intellects that rather than give them correct evidence based advice and trust them to follow it and tell them the truth, providing they understand it at all, the response is nope, none. They must have none because they can't be relied upon to be sensible. They are all a bunch of dim ingrates.

Long live misogyny and patriarchy.

Vive la revolution!

Both my children went into care the day they were born (prior to us adopting them a year later) having been placed on the CPR before they were born.
Their paperwork states ‘abuse and neglect’ as the cause of their care orders, despite them being removed from their birth mum straight after their births. So yes, it is child abuse.

Five years later they both have significant additional needs believed to be related to FASD. FASD is more prevalent than autism, though much less well understood and getting a diagnosis and support is incredibly difficult.

I'd report her to social services.

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous.

It's got nothing to do with not trusting women's intellects.

Why you are ignoring that the calculation of what is "fine" (given there's no reliable data and that Guardian article doesn't come close) isn't easy to determine, the almost universal phenomenon of everyone undercounting bad things and overcounting good, the variables of what actually is "one glass"; the variables in the alcohol volume of wine and the fact, you know , someone might not be able to work out what is safe?

Alcohol is a poison. It has the potential to do severe damage. Why do you want the NHS etc to pretend that isn't true?

The Guardian article correlating the fact that children of middle- class, moderate drinkers might have better outcomes than teetotal women in poor circumstances as evidence that moderate alcohol can be beneficial is laughable.

That's not what I said and I acknowledged there were confounding variables.

And I read studies, not Guardian articles about studies.