Friend drinking while pregnant

[lemondrop72]

Long term friend. Her first baby.

She has said a few times how she has got really upset with her partner or other friends who have been drinking alcohol while they've been out together because she feels like she can't join in the fun and isn't on the same "level".

She has text on a few occasions recently with a photo of a glass of wine or a cider etc while out saying "just the one 😉".
I don't want to sound patronising and it's none of my business because she is an adult. I never really respond to the messages because I don't want to make out I support drinking in pregnancy.
She messaged again the other day saying she had had "a few" the day before and felt really hungover. Now I'm starting to be to be a little concerned that one has turned into a few and I don't know if I should say something?

For the record, I have had two babies and she often asks my advise on pregnancy and babies etc.

Like I say it's probably none of my business but would you leave her to it or should I say I don't think it's a good idea to be drinking during pregnancy?

OP, it sounds to me as if she is trying to provoke you. And given your family history, that’s bloody nasty. I’d probably lay it on the line for her one time and if that kills the friendship, so be it. She sounds horrible anyway. I feel sorry for her child.

It’s odd because I’m fairly certain that if the title of this post was “friend smoking weed during pregnancy” or “friend shooting up during pregnancy”, there would be complete uproar in these comments right now

Not from me there wouldn't. It is nobody's business what a pregnant woman chooses to do and a pregnant woman "shooting up" would need support and kindness, not a bunch of bored mumsnetters calling her a bitch.

Nobody on this thread actually gives a shit about some stranger and her future child. They just use threads like these as an opportunity to put the boot in and feel superior and call a woman they don't know a "selfish bitch".

We absolutely cannot try and take control of women’s bodies whilst they are pregnant. That is a very slippery slope indeed

It will end up with women being classed as "pre-pregnant". Women of child bearing age policed in public just in case they could be pregnant. I think some mumsnetters would approve.

I would have to say something I think. Sounds like your friendship is in a rocky place in any case. Drinking in pregnancy comes with risks full stop. Alcohol is a (socially acceptable) toxin which is proven to have effects on development. Nobody really knows what the so-called 'safe' limit is which is why NHS has changed their guidance.

I could imagine that happening and it would be absolutely horrific

No we cannot. But we don't have to pretend to support their misinformed beliefs about what is safe and what is not.

100% this. Women don't cease to have bodily autonomy when they become pregnant (at least in civilised countries).

Thats true although it’s a difficult one isn’t it - the amount of things pregnant women are not supposed to eat for example, soft cheese and bagged salads etc, so over the top. I live off bagged salad! Not gonna just exist on carbs for 10 months

Parking aside your personal trauma and views on the alcohol intake during pregnancy.. What exactly are you trying to ahhieve? Do you think her answer will be 'omg, thank you so much, I had no idea I could harm my baby'? The only outcome will be she will tell you to f*k off and mind your own business and it will be the end of the friendship. She won't change any of her behavior. If you want to end your friendship(sounds like you do anyway) why don't you just stop talking to her if she is causing your upset?

We also don't need to pretend we know what is safe and what is not, and bang on and on about what we have decided is, with little actual data.

I'm sure there's a middle ground between "call Social Services" and "ignore it".

I would send a message saying you're glad she's still enjoying nights out, but that she can contact you at any time if she's struggling to say no to an alcoholic drink, as you know it can be hard. Offer to meet up where alcohol isn't the main event (cinema/park/market etc) as a reminder that having a good time with friends doesn't have to involve boozing. Offering support rather than instant censure may get a better response.

If she's in the kind of work/friend culture that revolves around boozy nights out, it would be nice to remind her she has one friend out there where she's not under that particular pressure. A friend's husband works in the City; his main topic of conversation is how many pints of absinthe he downed the night before. It's very alieniating if you don't drink, and exceedingly dull even if you do.

That's a really dangerous and ill informed statement.

www.nct.org.uk/pregnancy/food-and-nutrition/alcohol-can-i-drink-when-im-pregnant?gclid=Cj0KCQjwpcOTBhCZARIsAEAYLuV3lr0klWZoTT9MT0eYZfO2MuocsvIghqwuYLEx4Oc_7QFIohD9BrAaAoq3EALw_wcB

Good grief. We don't know if there is any safe level. People always underestimate how much they drink.

I don't think that was the guidance 10 years earlier when I was pregnant. I didn't drink at all.

I really can't get my head round why anyone would want to feed half a bottle of champagne to an 8 month feotus. You wouldn't do it to baby born at 8 months or a full term baby.

Good grief. We don't know if there is any safe level. People always underestimate how much they drink.

Studies of correlation have shown that babies whose mothers drink a SMALL amount during pregnancy have better outcomes than those whose mothers abstained completely. So yes, there is probably a safe level. We can't do double blind studies so correlation is all we have.

The pearl-clutching drama doesn't help anyone. The OP is about a mother drinking quite a lot. But pretending one small glass of champagne at NY is going to give a baby FAS is irresponsible too.

The poster in question said it was half a bottle actually. I'm sticking with my comment - who thinks it's acceptable to give half a bottle of champagne to a baby?

Do you have links to those studies? I'm extremely sceptical.

The downplaying by certain posters is appalling. People lie about how much they drink; "one glass" per recommendations means 125cl- not the large glasses which are the norm.

Oh and congratulations on using "pearl clutching" - it's a useful marker that the opinion of anyone using can safely be ignored.

My niece has FAS - my brother's stupid won't be told anything wife was regularly drinking during her third pregnancy.

She is now 16 & has the typical facial features, plus a very anxious form of autism, and is unlikely to ever be fully independent.

@KimikosNightmare I'm not finding studies for someone who says i can be safely ignored! And I'm not engaging with someone who thinks women can't measure or count.

Regardless, the likelihood is that correlation is attributable to confounding variables like class, pre-existing addiction and pockets of things like religion.

And yes, half a bottle is more than I would be comfortable with, as is the amount in the OP. But there is an element of controlling and judging women that I find troubling. Rather than supporting and communicating effectively.

Godnid have to reply "aren't you still pregnant?!"
Getting hungover while pregnant is honestly just vile. How can someone be so desperate for alcohol?

Oh come off it with "women can't count" nonsense. I didn't actually say "women" . I said people.

It's a well known phenomenon that people underestimate how much bad things they do, whether it's alcohol, empty calories, watching television and overestimate the good.

The glass of wine is particularly egregious because the actual glasses used in homes and pubs aren't the ones used in NHS guidance. And that's not even taking account of the alcohol differences in wine which can range from 4% to 15%.

It is nobody's business what a pregnant woman chooses to do
**
where is the line in that? So the day after the baby is born putting 125ml merlot into the bottle isn't abusive?

I'm sorry but some of your body autonomy does get out to one side when pregnant. I've often wondered why we don't section addicts during pregnancy to prevent harm to an innocent baby.

I'm sorry but some of your body autonomy does get out to one side when pregnant. I've often wondered why we don't section addicts during pregnancy to prevent harm to an innocent baby.

I wonder how far you'd take this. Obesity during pregnancy is associated with a wide range of poor outcomes, to a degree that's much more demonstrable than small amounts of alcohol. Would you include those that struggle with their body weight?

If she already knows the dangers, and is just arguing it with herself, then honestly, it's her issue. There isn't really anything you can do about it, especially if you want to maintain the friendship longterm.

Through my work, I've worked with quite a few children with Foetal Alcohol Syndrome, and I don't think people are really aware of how serious it can be. I worked with one little boy who was really quite seriously impaired, yet his mum swore to the end of beyond that she'd "only had one" drink her entire pregnancy... Make of that what you will.

It really doesn't. Not legally anyway. And thank fuck for that. Women aren't incubators.

The law/health system doesn't get to take control of women's bodies just because they're pregnant. Instead, pregnant women are offered advice and guidance so they can make informed decisions for themselves. But until the baby is born, the mother's rights come first.