To end a friendship due to his use of sex workers?

[Cornishjam1162]

It has recently come to light that a friend of 15 years is a regular customer of sex workers. We have always wondered why he never wanted to date again after getting a divorce and now it makes sense. I would have never had him down as the type and I'm shocked to say the least. I don't know the circumstances behind why the women do that line of work but there's always the risk that they're not doing it out of their own free will isn't there? I feel like he could well be exploiting vulnerable women.

Would you end a friendship over this? Am I being too judgemental?

In conclusion, my chums & I have just downed another bingo shot 😎

Your chances of getting the pompous debate you crave are pretty much zero at this point. Why not mither someone else for it?

If the person you want me to read about, I'm guessing she has documented research to backup the authors claims, etc. Which gives the research credibility.

Some posters on here, seem to want to say x,y,z so then is it not reasonably to ask for their sources that confirms their perspectives. To then be met with do your own research, how does that then give credibility to the posters who are claiming x,y,z ?to

In conclusion, do we just take a person's word that x is true ?

Here is an example of yourself asking for evidence.

Here is an example of yourself asking for evidence.
Also 2 examples of me giving evidence. HTH

Also - grammatical point, Mr Referencing Oxford Too Many Times For It To Go Unnoticed - "you", not "yourself".

the sources were helpful in one sense, but they did not break down the 9/10 figure. Therefore an accurate analysis cannot be achieved from the figures they reference.

My grammar standards are not as good as they used to be.

The same point with the Amsterdam figures too, no detailed breakdown of the figures used.

"accurate analysis" "detailed breakdown" FFS dude - these are PEOPLE not data points.

Read ONE woman's account - Sarah Forsyth's - & you will immediately understand what a large proportion of Amsterdam 'happy hookers' are in fact not happy at all, but trafficked, or otherwise coerced.

If you can read her account & still squeal for "accurate analysis" instead of reeling in horror - you've a stronger stomach than mine.

It's very comforting for people to adopt a blase stance about the sex industry - it helps the illusion of 'oh, it's just a service, most hookers are self-employed & liberated, nothing to see here, especially if I stick my fingers in my ears & sing la la la ...'

In other news, I've just lost a round of garden booze bingo, for responding in seriousness to your ... bizarre insistence on forensic analysis & demands to have your homework done for you.
Mea culpa! & drat my nefarious drinking buddies ...

Unless I'm mistaken, and correct me if I'm wrong, but are government policy and policies created by different companies and organisations are in part based on figures and data, ? Therefore how is my request for accurate data unreasonable ?

And with all due respect, one specific case on it's own, how does that suddenly equate to a big picture , seems that's one case then extrapolating without more facts or figures to backup the extrapolation of analysis?

With due respect - you haven't bothered to even look up the Sarah Forsyth book, yet are dismissing the wealth of information it contains because that's easier than ... reading actual testimony?

Or maybe being arsed about real people, rather than extrapolation of analysis?

Yay - bingo - shot!

Just looked it up, and yes so far have only read the summary on Waterstones and holy smokes 😲. When I get the chance I'll read through it, the statement I was trying to make, is that from a logical academic perspective how can you take that one case and then assume every single other case is exactly like it, without more detailed analysis, facts, figures and many other interviews with as many people as possible, then see what the data and information shows,

Coerced women aren't bothered by logical academic perspectives.

When the rest of the world decides that lived experience trumps data processing as a method of evaluating ethical practice, the world will be a better place.

But thank you Hawkins, for your more measured & human response.
Although you know it's cost me another shot ...

When any profession causes harm to a person, what do you advocate, shutting down the industry ?

How about the military ?

In most industries the risk is assessed and minimised as far as possible.

There is a reason people argue for decriminalisation rather than legalisation. Because making it safe for the prostitute is only possible to the detriment of the punters experience.

Actually thought, not many professions cause foreseeable harm to the staff as if they did, the organisation would be sued under health and safety legislation

AdamRyan · 19/05/2022 16:24

"Quite a lot of the manosphere hate all women, so hating female prostitutes says nothing"

True, there are genuine misogynists within the manosphere but the avoidance of porn and sex workers has a particular reason over and above a dislike and distrust of women of general.

"Quite a lot of the manosphere subscribe to the idea that men who women won't sleep with voluntarily, have a "right" to sex and so are perfectly entitled to rape women/pay for sex"

I don't claim to be any sort of expert but I've never seen anything approaching that with the exception of some Muslim extremist types who don't countenance paying for sex but do view the rape of infidels as a perk of the job. A citation is needed here.

I would say more or less everyone thinks they have the right to have sex. There is a difference between having a right to do something and doing at someone else's expense or against their will. Paying for sex isn't synonymous with rape when both parties consent to the transaction. If you don't believe any sex workers ever freely consent I suggest you bother to listen to the voices of actual sex workers not of rescue industry feminists who are pursuing their own agenda at the expense of those they claim to fight for.

"Quite a lot of the manosphere think the government should make "marriage" aka sexual slavery compulsory"

Again, a citation is needed to make that claim credible. That just sounds like something feminists say to demonise the manosphere. What MRAs and feminists say about each other is rarely fair or accurate.

"I mean, I think kettricken (fabulous name BTW, my favourite books) has a good point thar your views on consent line up quite well with the manosphere"

Which view in particular? My views on sex work are more or less those of liberal and intersectional feminists, my views on the problems within the feminist movement are more or less identical to those of feminists Camille Paglia and Christina Hoff Sommers and my opinion of the trans issue is more or less exactly that of feminists such as Julie Bindel and Germaine Greer.

You have dodged the question of your own porn consumption Adam. Why is that?

kettricken (fabulous name BTW, my favourite books)

Oh - missed that previously @AdamRyan ... excellent!
Hobb is incomparable 😍

She is amazing
I am also named after a book character in one of my other favourites

@AdamRyan I wondered, but am missing the reference ...

You have dodged the question of your own porn consumption Adam. Why is that?
Because I was talking about the manosphere and prostitutes 🙄

I'll say the same thing to you that I said to Hawkins - read Laura Bates "Men who hate women" about the manosphere.

kettricken
www.goodreads.com/book/show/2459785.In_the_Woods

KettrickenSmiled · 19/05/2022 17:02

"??? How ridiculous. You know 'consent' informs areas of life other than sex, don't you?"

You are such a moral coward. We are on a thread about sex work. Of course you meant that.

"But ... suppose I don't want to debate, & see no obligation to 'defend' a position?"

You don't want the effort of defending your position or find it hard to do so, certainly.

"You are the gift that keeps on giving - more hilariously pompous with every post."

And yet you're the one who flounced off and thinks I need your consent to reply to you.

AdamRyan · 20/05/2022 09:16

You have dodged the question of your own porn consumption Adam. Why is that?

"Because I was talking about the manosphere and prostitutes 🙄"

Evasion once again. It's all very well to maintain a holier than thou position while not dealing honestly with your own porn use.

"I'll say the same thing to you that I said to Hawkins - read Laura Bates "Men who hate women" about the manosphere."

Laura Bates is a joke.

KettrickenSmiled · 19/05/2022 17:10

"I'm finding it amusing, not intolerable. I don't think you've fathomed how little weight I'm giving you ... "

Nice try. Your attempt to re-frame what happened doesn't convince anyone. You gave me enough 'weight' to lead you flounce off saying that you wouldn't talk to me again and that I wasn't to reply to you. When I dared defy your command you spoke of consent.

That wasn't the action of someone relaxed and amused.

You appear to be labouring under a misapprehension that PP owe you attention, Missy.