To end a friendship due to his use of sex workers?

[Cornishjam1162]

It has recently come to light that a friend of 15 years is a regular customer of sex workers. We have always wondered why he never wanted to date again after getting a divorce and now it makes sense. I would have never had him down as the type and I'm shocked to say the least. I don't know the circumstances behind why the women do that line of work but there's always the risk that they're not doing it out of their own free will isn't there? I feel like he could well be exploiting vulnerable women.

Would you end a friendship over this? Am I being too judgemental?

ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave · 17/05/2022 10:26

"Those that actually care about women don't watch porn either, misssatan."

Does that only apply to women in porn? Are the men in porn not considered at all?

By your logic almost all men and a very sizeable proportion of women don't care about women, other than those men and women exclusively watching gay male porn which I guess doesn't matter as that only involves men.

So why should we take any notice of you. That's not a question, I don't need an answer.

Then why did you assume that I used sex workers, by which you obviously meant prostitutes?
Because women use prostitutes too.
Because women can be arseholes too.
Because women can exploit people too.
HTH

I didn't think you are male. I think Hawkins001 is male. That's irrelevant to what I think about your, or his, stance on the sex industry. Or what I think about your peculiar agenda to denounce feminists - as if they are some kind of other species that uses statistical analysis differently from non-feminist humans.

However, this is all bye the bye as I imagine you have some hot porn to watch which is much more interesting to you than concerning yourself with victims of the sex industry. So I won't be engaging with you further on this thread, & if you could manage to refrain from tagging me again that will be great.

Off you trot, porn hound!

Vampirethriller · 17/05/2022 11:13

"So why should we take any notice of you. That's not a question, I don't need an answer."

I shall answer nevertheless. No-one needs take any more notice of me than I take of you. It's your choice whether you respond to me or not.

KettrickenSmiled · 17/05/2022 11:15

"Because women use prostitutes too."

True, but not many and I am not one of them.

"Because women can be arseholes too."

True. Feminists can also be arseholes.

"Because women can exploit people too."

True. That also applies to women who claim they are acting for the benefit of others by claiming to speak for for them while speaking over them.

"I didn't think you are male. I think Hawkins001 is male. That's irrelevant to what I think about your, or his, stance on the sex industry. Or what I think about your peculiar agenda to denounce feminists - as if they are some kind of other species that uses statistical analysis differently from non-feminist humans."

I don't think feminists are a different species but I do think rescue industry feminists are particularly guilty of using massaged and misleading statistics to push their (often quite profitable) agenda. I'm hardly the first to point this out. Julie Bindel has been taken to task for this but she is only one of many guilty of this.

"However, this is all bye the bye as I imagine you have some hot porn to watch"

Maybe later.

"which is much more interesting to you than concerning yourself with victims of the sex industry."

I am concerned by anyone who is actually a victim not those who have been framed as victims against their will and consent by others who claim to know better because they follow a particular ideology.

"So I won't be engaging with you further on this thread, & if you could manage to refrain from tagging me again that will be great."

If you say stupid things I will comment on them, with or without your permission. It's up to you whether you respond or not.

"Off you trot, porn hound!"

In my experience the more aggressive and self righteous someone is the more they have to hide.

misssatan Gosh, rather unusual for a "gay woman" to turn a thread about women into "what about the mennnn? Don't we they matter?"

ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave · 17/05/2022 11:38

"Gosh, rather unusual for a "gay woman" to turn a thread about women into "what about the mennnn? Don't we they matter?""

Not really. I don't think men in porn are victims unless they have actually been victimised but I do question why someone who thinks women performers in porn are victims doesn't think the men are.

Are male performers in porn not also exploited by the evil porn industry? Why is their exploitation of no interest? Is it somehow a part of a convoluted theory of patriarchy that they can't be victims because they have all the power because they are men in a male dominated society? Or is it simply because they are men so their fate isn't as important as women in your eyes?

And I'm hardly the first woman to point our the hypocrisy, stupidity and double standards of so much feminism. Many of the leading critics of feminism are women. It isn't a men only club. I'm also critical of MRAs and their similar level of silly whining which mirrors that of so many silly feminists.

Because the question is whether someone would choose to remain friends with such a person.

As in socialise with them, talk to them, invite them to social events, etc - whatever the friendship involves. People do have choice in the matter, you know!

I don't like socialising with anything that hints that someone might not care about vitiated consent or that casual sex forms a major part of their life. It gives me the ick. Especially sleaziness. Therefore, I would cut them out of my life and have done so in the past. True, those former friends have been male but I don't really have any female friends who sleep around by lying about being single either, or who talk about using prostitutes or watching porn. Not really something I'm looking for in friends.

But for women, theres also an aspect of personal safety even in choosing carefully who your friends are. Even a man you consider a friend may attack you or, more likely, try to line you up for sex.

I really wasn't keen on going to the wedding of a friend who was marrying a woman from the Third World that he had never met either and in the end, I didn't go and DH went on his own. That has later proved to be a wise decision based on the way he treats her and later events.

Slightly off topic, why and what are people's views on Onlyfans, ?

Hit a nerve Miss Satan?

At least have the courage of your convictions. Most women think prostitution is a bad idea for all concerned, and nothing you say will change that. You're obviously really into it. You do you. After all, you don't care what a load of anonymous people think.

Pennox · 18/05/2022 03:14

"Hit a nerve Miss Satan?"

What nerve?

"At least have the courage of your convictions."

What convictions? Do you mean I should pay for sex if I don't think it should be banned? I don't drink or take drugs and I don't think those should be banned either. I think prohibition makes things very much worse.

"Most women think prostitution is a bad idea for all concerned, and nothing you say will change that."

How nice of you to speak for 'most women'. What a godlike ability you have to know 'most women's' views on any given subject.

"You're obviously really into it. You do you."

No, I'm not really into it. I occasionally watch porn as do about a third of women and every man with a sex drive. I don't partake in other part of the sex industry unless you count sex toys.

By the way, what do you think of your husband's/boyfriend's porn use?

"After all, you don't care what a load of anonymous people think."

No, I don't but I do like to represented accurately.

By the way, what do you think of your husband's/boyfriend's porn use?

Huh, a "gay woman" who's not only determined to talk about men's rights but also assumes any woman is in a relationship with a man. Interesting.

No, I don't but I do like to represented accurately.

I think you should represent yourself accurately, too.

@ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave 😍😂

Yeah, you don't uoften get many feminist-hating lesbians to the pound ...

Not sure this man one is worth even a penny!

KettrickenSmiled · 18/05/2022 14:14

"Yeah, you don't uoften get many feminist-hating lesbians to the pound ..."

How would you know?

Most women don't identify as feminists so why should gay women be any different? We are not a hive mind.

I also don't hate feminists unless they are personally hateful. I'm just critical of feminism where I think it deserves criticism.

You also hate other forms of feminism, don't you? Be honest now.

As the feminist movement is always at war with itself to be a feminist means you have to choose a side: you are either an evil gender critical terf/swerf or a silly liberal feminist who thinks men can be women and promotes the evils of the sex industry. There is no neutral ground, one side is always 'doing feminism wrong' in the eyes of the other.

As the feminist movement is always at war with itself to be a feminist means you have to choose a side: you are either an evil gender critical terf/swerf or a silly liberal feminist who thinks men can be women and promotes the evils of the sex industry. There is no neutral ground, one side is always 'doing feminism wrong' in the eyes of the other.
Only if you are the kind of person who needs to assign herself ridiculous labels.
Women are free to practice - or not practice - any form of feminism they choose.
I'd rather celebrate that fact than buy a badge proclaiming what kind of feminist I reckon I identify as ... because the label is meaningless to me. The freedom of choice, & personal agency is what's important.

Most women don't identify as feminists so why should gay women be any different? We are not a hive mind.
Because gay women experience even more discrimination than het women, so they are more alive to it. Also because this is my direct experience of all the gay women I know. You clearly are not one of them, & move in different circles. You do you - as above, it's your freedom of choice that's important, not your agreement.

As the feminist movement is always at war with itself to be a feminist means you have to choose a side:

"As the human race is always at war with itself to be a human mean you have to choose a side"

Yeah - piffle dressed as meaningful insight ....

Some interesting responses.
I used to work in a sexual health clinic and the vast majority of the working girls who I treated were happy with their profession. It afforded them a certain lifestyle. I must admit to being really surprised by that. They used to enjoy talking to me about it because it wasn't the kind of thing they could discuss with people. I could only assume that the really chaotic girls that were drug addicts etc were just not accessing services.
You can't make gross generalisations about either the women who sell sex or their clients.
It's the oldest profession around and it's not going anywhere.
Whilst I wish it wasn't a thing, what I'd like to see is much stricter regulations. So basically legal brothels.
If a man is single and he is paying for sex with a woman in a place where they are well looked after and it is absolutely their choice...what's the issue? They are providing a service. There may be many reasons why a man can't have sex 'normally'.

My central question remains unanswered, presumably because you have no answer. Why is porn only exploiting women if both men and women take part and why is the exploitation of men in porn something that doesn't concern you?

I have to say that I wonder what the answer to this is too.

KettrickenSmiled · 18/05/2022 20:25

"Only if you are the kind of person who needs to assign herself ridiculous labels."

Like a feminist you mean?

"Women are free to practice - or not practice - any form of feminism they choose."

And those types have so little in common they are tearing each other to pieces.

"Because gay women experience even more discrimination than het women, so they are more alive to it."

Do they? How would you know? Wouldn't the same apply to gay men? Shouldn't they all be MRAs by your logic?

"Also because this is my direct experience of all the gay women I know."

Their experience is not yours and, as I said before, we are not a hive mind. There are women who criticise feminism, black people who criticise BLM and CRT, gay people who despise Pride, trans people who have no time for Stonewall. Your low grade identity politics tries to ascribe views based on sex, skin colour, sexuality etc.

"You clearly are not one of them, & move in different circles."

Have you heard of Camille Paglia? She is one of the fiercest critics of the kind of feminism you and this site personify, prissy, priggish, pearl clutching, bourgeois and frequently hysterical. Her kind of feminism I can appreciate but most feminists don't want her in the sisterhood.

KettrickenSmiled · 18/05/2022 20:27

"As the human race is always at war with itself to be a human mean you have to choose a side"

"Yeah - piffle dressed as meaningful insight ...."

The human race isn't at war with itself at all times but feminism is absolutely and constantly divided on particular issues. You are being incredibly disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

There is no common ground between so called sex positive and sex negative feminists, those who want to ban prostitution and those who believe it to be a legitimate industry. There is no common ground between those who think trans 'women' are real women and those who don't.

Mumsnet is a notorious (in the eyes of trans inclusionary feminists) site for 'terfs' and also for 'swerfs'. It is absolutely despised by a very large and influential group of feminists whose views are so diametrically opposed to the majority on here to make it ludicrous to pretend you belong to a single movement.

Try, just once, to be honest and admit the truth.

I don’t think anyone’s shocked, are they?

It’s depressingly predictable, not shocking.

Suggesting that women are ‘shocked’ by reality is a good way to imply women are prudish frigid pearl-clutchers though, and that our opinions are hysterical rather than reasoned. It’s a standard tactic of misogynists.

"Suggesting that women are ‘shocked’ by reality is a good way to imply women are prudish frigid pearl-clutchers though, and that our opinions are hysterical rather than reasoned. It’s a standard tactic of misogynists."

It might be but it's also accurate when looking at quite a significant proportion of mumsnet posters, male and female. No misogyny is required to point that out. Calling your critics bigots and 'ists' or 'phobes' of some kind is just a way of deflecting criticism without having to deal with it.

The majority on here will be women but some are men and being hysterical is hardly the exclusive preserve of any one sex, race of political persuasion. At the moment the woke left is being especially hysterical but the right is equally capable of it as well.

It's also true that the kind of feminism you find on here is very priggish and comically bourgeois and reflects the faults of a particular section of a society. That doesn't mean no other people are that way or that they don't display flaws of their own.

Try, just once, to be honest and admit the truth.

@misssatan OK dude. You know me better than I know myself, your intellect puts all others to shame, & it's not weird At ALL that you loathe feminists but support MRA.

I was going to ask if we're done now, but caught myself in time! ... We're done.
Don't tag me again, & if you need to vent your frustrations you'll find plenty of like minded individuals on various red pill sites to prop up your asinine views on the sex industry.