When people say they're invisible/no longer turn heads

[Onanotherdiet38]

Now in my 30s, I am probably considered ancient to a 19 year old male for instance, I don't expect them to find me attractive as in a prospective partner, but equally I couldn't care less what they think of my looks as i am not interested in 19 year old men myself.

At 50, I don't expect men in their 20s/30s to consider me as dating material, and I expect to be considered too old for them. I'm sure I could be considered attractive to men of a similar age/not too much younger.

If a 50 year old male rejected me as a 50 year old to date a 25 year old woman instead then I'd consider it a lucky escape really.

Surely it's all relative? I'm sure a lot of men in their 50s/60s do find 20 year olds highly sexually attractive but personally I wouldn't want to date someone who's aiming for that age.

I don't believe in the concept of invisible. People say they used to 'turn heads' a lot, but we don't see every single person looking at us. And surely validation shouldn't come from whether some man is gawping at us as we walk down the street.

I saw a woman the other day who looked around 70, her face was lined but she had quite 'young' clothes and make up, she had such beautiful eyes and auburn hair. It's all relative I think.

I just added the last paragraph. The top quote didn't bold

@Goodyetalso

“ Yes this! If you walk in somewhere with your head held high and a big smile, people will notice you. Nice clothes, hair and makeup are important too. If you look confident, pulled together, happy, and, dare I say it, expensive…. People will notice you.”

Can you imagine anyone giving this advice to a man who had spent his 20s and 30s being regarded as attractive and successful? No. Because nobody stops thinking they’re important whether they’re smiling, looking expensive, have nice hair or not.

I agree, but it doesn’t stop it being true. It might feel unfair, but I’d rather be noticed and taken seriously than stand on principle, so I do it.

@Longcovid21

*I was at an awards event this afternoon.

I was chatting to 3 other women who had all won awards. All 50s all confident, all well dressed, all at the top
Of our game.

Behind us in a little nook there were 3 of my female graduates chatting . It was quite funny. Men in their 40/50/60s Would wander up & try break through the line to get to the young women. We didn’t move for them.

I could see them get frustrated. None of the men were interested in passing the time of day with the older women. We were like an invisible force field!*

The above just sums it up entirely. It's not about turning heads, it's like you are an obstacle to try to get around. It is very obvious indeed.

But hasn't it always been the way, that men will by pass women they percieve as less attractive to get to the ones they percieve as more so? Even where the women are the same age, or the attractive one is older? Certainly when I was young, and went through a considerably plainer stage, when out with my cousin (nearly 20 years older, but very attractive) I would be overlooked in favour of her. Conversely when out with younger women now I look better, I get attention from men while they are ignored. I also wonder if at the ceremony there were other factors at play. The average male ego would be more interested in 'impressing' his young colleagues with his own status and achievements than congratulating his female peers on theirs. Obviously not being there, I wouldn't know. But I'm not (yet!) convinced that it's age alone that produces this phenomena.

@HRTQueen

that protection older women give younger women is brilliant. I remember it being given to me now I am the one giving it

Mm. Not convinced that forming a human shield is the way to go though. Most men's take away from this would be that it was purely down to the older women that they didn't get the young ones. It would reinforce their view of themselves as all conquering alphas from whom women needed protection, and that older women were getting in the way because they are bitter and jealous. The only ones who can deliver the message to old men where its going to hit home are the young women themselves, as theirs is the only opinion the men care about, so we do better giving them the tools to do so, under a watchful eye. Sadly, its a life skill they'll need.

I read an interesting thread a while back on another forum where women who were on "silver" dating sites all complained about the men their age (late 60s to mid-80s) being only interested in dating women 25 years younger than them, minimum. They were really upset and hurt.

being only interested in dating women 25 years younger than them, minimum

And then they get the nappies and sleepless nights again when the younger woman inevitably wants to start a family. LOL.

5128gap I talking about situations where it happens and it’s always happened older women have always looked out for younger women as they know how it feels like to have unwanted attention. It’s sisterly/motherly feelings even if fleeting had to protect

Unfortunately for many we start learning as children (nothing to do with looks at all)

I was at times aware it was happening and thankful other times probably blissfully aware it wasn’t

What men take from that or think I couldn’t give a fuck if older men are approaching younger women who just happen to be talking amongst themselves and feel it’s their right to intrude then what is said back to them isn’t going to make the slightest bit of difference because their ego and lack of awareness trumps the women’s feelings they don’t go away thinking oh maybe these women wanted to just chat I was in the wrong they go away thinking what is wrong with them I was only trying to be nice

Not all men behave like this but those that do have a formed opinion of women anyway and I really could care if they think I’m jealous old and bitter or what other derogatory terms they through my way or think

I think some of the posters here are missing the point- it's not about wanting to attract male attention, but being seen and acknowledged as an individual with a right to exist, older women on their own are often seen as easy prey by violent males. In nature the weakest members of the herd are picked off by predators. We shouldn't have to fight to be seen; our society should value all members equally.

I agree Dragonfly97

I think there are many points. The OP seems to have vanished, but has a fantasy that these things women report do not occur - whether that be men preferring to date much younger women, even into their 70s and 80s, or people talking through them, or males and females walking into them as if they don't exist. If you read her OP, it's all (fantasies) about dating, anyway.

Until you get there yourself it's difficult to understand.

I was in my prime between the ages of 28 and 40. I was confident and felt visible. I did attract quite a bit of male attraction but that was only part of the picture.

Fast forward to my 50s and I feel like very few people value what I have to say. It's not just men but women as well especially younger women. I think people assume you've been at home taking care of kids for years (I haven't) so have nothing of value to add to the party.

I'm working a career solution that negates the need for people to accept my work based on seeing me face to face.

@HRTQueen

5128gap I talking about situations where it happens and it’s always happened older women have always looked out for younger women as they know how it feels like to have unwanted attention. It’s sisterly/motherly feelings even if fleeting had to protect

Unfortunately for many we start learning as children (nothing to do with looks at all)

I was at times aware it was happening and thankful other times probably blissfully aware it wasn’t

What men take from that or think I couldn’t give a fuck if older men are approaching younger women who just happen to be talking amongst themselves and feel it’s their right to intrude then what is said back to them isn’t going to make the slightest bit of difference because their ego and lack of awareness trumps the women’s feelings they don’t go away thinking oh maybe these women wanted to just chat I was in the wrong they go away thinking what is wrong with them I was only trying to be nice

Not all men behave like this but those that do have a formed opinion of women anyway and I really could care if they think I’m jealous old and bitter or what other derogatory terms they through my way or think

As long as they go away not thinking that if it weren't for those old women I'd be in there, I think its a result. Even the most robust ego doesn't take kindly to direct rejection from the object of their interest. Theres also a bit of a danger in making assumptions about younger women's preferences. A lot of people on here are looking back on the time they received this sort of attention as their glory days, which they enjoyed. We can't know for sure what other women are thinking or whether they want our intervention. I'm fully on board with looking out for each other, but feel it's preferable to keep an eye on the situation, stepping in if required, rather than take control and impose our perspective on it. There's also a danger of infantalising younger women which doesn't help them be seen as the capable adults they are. As I said, I wasn't there, and I'm sure you read the runes. Just a general viewpoint.

I think you are putting too much thought into it

It happens has always happened women are not chaperoned in our society they will have to deal with men at other times alone or with others. Even if chaperoned it still happens

Many men are utter twats a bruised ego doesn’t change their view point at all.

I love that women do this and look out for each other it’s not constant but happens at times far too often it’s made out we dislike other women/are jealous/insecure of other women a view point many men love to beleive in

But hasn't it always been the way, that men will by pass women they percieve as less attractive to get to the ones they percieve as more so

This is actually insulting. Nowhere did the pp say the older women were less attractive than the younger ones. You just assumed it.

I do think the way some of the women are talking on this thread shows their lack of understanding. There's lots of discounting going on, suggesting for example that if you have nice eyes and a jacket that complements them, you can't hide the whole invisible thing. You can't!

Until people consistently look through or past you with mild distain and disinterest, you can't possibly judge others who experience this.

@Longcovid21

But hasn't it always been the way, that men will by pass women they percieve as less attractive to get to the ones they percieve as more so

This is actually insulting. Nowhere did the pp say the older women were less attractive than the younger ones. You just assumed it.

I do think the way some of the women are talking on this thread shows their lack of understanding. There's lots of discounting going on, suggesting for example that if you have nice eyes and a jacket that complements them, you can't hide the whole invisible thing. You can't!

Until people consistently look through or past you with mild distain and disinterest, you can't possibly judge others who experience this.

You're overlooking the important part of my sentence where I clearly stated 'that they PERCIEVE as more attractive' I've made the point several times over on this thread that young women are not necessarily more attractive than older women, so the last thing I would do would be to assume it. However, given the men in question tried to get past the one group of women to get to the other, we can assume that THEY were more attracted to the second group. Maybe for their looks, maybe for they're youth and percieved impressionability, as i suggested in that same post. Who knows? It would be ridiculous to deny that men find some women more attractive than others, and will gravitate towards them. My argument is that this is not always to do with their age, and tbh, i find the 'just wait till you're 50 comments' actually quite insulting, because if anything betrays the assumption that older women cannot possibly be attractive, then it is those.

I'm early 30s myself and although I've noticed I get less male attention than I would have once (which for the record wasn't loads anyway), that definitely isn't what, for example, my DM (60s) means when she says she's "invisible". She means it in a much more literal way, like I have witnessed people (men) drop doors on her as though they actually can't see her. I think for some men, when a woman isn't considered a sexual prospect anymore she stops being worthy of basic manners or relevant in any way. And sadly there are a lot of younger women who seem to think the same way

tbh, i find the 'just wait till you're 50 comments' actually quite insulting, because if anything betrays the assumption that older women cannot possibly be attractive, then it is those.

Older women can be and are attractive until the cows come home - it still does not negate the fact that this behaviour occurs, and on multiple levels, and in many many situations.

Being disbelieved is really insulting.

@milkyaqua

tbh, i find the 'just wait till you're 50 comments' actually quite insulting, because if anything betrays the assumption that older women cannot possibly be attractive, then it is those.

Older women can be and are attractive until the cows come home - it still does not negate the fact that this behaviour occurs, and on multiple levels, and in many many situations.

Being disbelieved is really insulting.

I'm not disbelieving anyone. I believe those who say they are invisible, and those who say they're not. The only thing I have issue with is when one side assumes their experience must or will in time to come be the case for everyone, when there are many variables that impact how women are percieved in middle age.

Not only are older women's feelings and experiences downplayed in real life, ironically they are on here too. People just can't seem to believe that it is true!

I think it is because it isn't true for all of us.

@MaryTheWitch

It's not just about finding validation from men finding us attractive though. Society as a whole - the media, Hollywood, etc. - tells us that men get more attractive with age, whereas women become unattractive.

And it's not just looks. We stop being taken seriously - we're just silly menopausal women. We're overlooked in the workplace. Our opinions don't matter.

That's what people mean by being invisible. It's not just being good looking.

Men ageing better is just not true though. Not even remotely. Yes you have some very, very small fraction of a percentage of men who improve with age. Ryan Reynolds, for example, was generically cute at 25 but charismatically handsome at 45. But the vast, vast majority of men are not Ryan Reynolds. The vast majority of men in fact morph into a human-potato hybrid looking creature at some point between 30 and 40.

While women who age naturally just tend to keep on looking like human beings. There was a time in the past where women did tend to get horrible unflattering haircuts from middle age onwards and dress with a certain blandness. So I guess that made us look prematurely less attractive and kind of 'sexless.' But that time is over and now women style their hair and dress in the same general fashions from childhood to their 80s+. And it's clear as day that the average woman is a hell of a lot more attractive from middle age and beyond than the average man.

Tbh, as someone attracted to men and women, from my early 40s onwards I rarely see a man in real life that I feel any inkling of attraction to. Whereas beautiful older women are absolutely everywhere.

At 50 i think i'm just experiencing people being real without the 'young and attractive' filter now. Some are rude shits, most aren't. Some people have dropped the fawning and are just their lazy unpleasant self. And it's mostly older men actually.

My experience is:
11ish to mid teens - leered and whistled at all the bloody time, touched up on public transport. Hated it all.

Late teens to 30s - Loads of male attention, free stuff, propositions, unsolicited job offers, knight in shinning armour want to rescue you stuff, eyes on in pub/club, drinks and cabs payed for all night. Listened to. Remembered. Never ignored. Random women mostly unfriendly.

40s - older heads still turn. Still got 'that' twinkly attention from male staff sometimes. Still felt listened to. Still usually remembered. Women more friendly. No more freebies and daft gushing. No more embarrassing desperate chat ups/following/stalking. No randoms paying for you, making ways to talk to you.

Much nicer.

Now 50.
I feel respected. Not always remembered but then i don't always remember everyone i've spoken to. I don't feel ''invisible'' but no longer feel people looking for ways to talk to me. Very occasionally i'll get a chat up. Women of all ages are really chatty and open and friendly now. I like it :)

''Tbh, as someone attracted to men and women, from my early 40s onwards I rarely see a man in real life that I feel any inkling of attraction to. Whereas beautiful older women are absolutely everywhere.''

Yes, this !

I don't think you can dismiss others experiences at all everyone experiences it differently.

I do personally believe confidence and caring about others opinions makes a difference. When I look at my peer group, the ones who percieve they are fading into obscurity are mostly the same that have low confidence. The two I'm thinking of unintentionally shrink in the wider world. They actively try to take up less space and as a result often get overlooked.

I'm 42 and in all honesty I feel more "seen" than I have in my 20's. I'm taken far more seriously professionally because I have 20 years experience and I evidence it in how I talk.

I don't really care if others find me attractive but I certainly do. I have more confidence to wear striking styles now than I ever did. I generally don't pay attention to whether others look at me.

It's not a given to fade into the background but I do think that idea of confidence appearing in your 40's is only half true. It takes actual work to get into that head space. It doesn't just happen. If you've spent 20 years worrying what others think and shrinking, yes it will get worse because our society prizes youth. So if that's what you have relied on, it's going to hurt when it goes.

I feel amazing in my 40's, no idea what will happen in my 50's and 60's but frankly I have no damn intention of shrinking myself so fingers crossed.

@ThePlantsitter

For me, I never really thought I was attractive. But now I'm really not I can see two things.

1. of course I bloody was and

1. as far as society was concerned it was the only thing about me that mattered.

Now as a middle aged women I'm angry not that no one fancies me but that I spent all those years thinking that what I said and did was interesting and that men (and women tbf) listened to it because it was significant in some small way. But no. It was always just about how much a man might want to fuck me, because I'm a woman and that's all that counts about us.

This is exactly my experience! When I figured it out I felt such a fool. I always thought maybe sexual attraction was in the mix somewhere but no. It was 100% sexual interest. It was not my deep and interesting personality and ideas, which is what I had thought.

The new way (being ignored) is so much better. Its real. If I want to be heard, I have to fight for it.