When people say they're invisible/no longer turn heads

[Onanotherdiet38]

Now in my 30s, I am probably considered ancient to a 19 year old male for instance, I don't expect them to find me attractive as in a prospective partner, but equally I couldn't care less what they think of my looks as i am not interested in 19 year old men myself.

At 50, I don't expect men in their 20s/30s to consider me as dating material, and I expect to be considered too old for them. I'm sure I could be considered attractive to men of a similar age/not too much younger.

If a 50 year old male rejected me as a 50 year old to date a 25 year old woman instead then I'd consider it a lucky escape really.

Surely it's all relative? I'm sure a lot of men in their 50s/60s do find 20 year olds highly sexually attractive but personally I wouldn't want to date someone who's aiming for that age.

I don't believe in the concept of invisible. People say they used to 'turn heads' a lot, but we don't see every single person looking at us. And surely validation shouldn't come from whether some man is gawping at us as we walk down the street.

I saw a woman the other day who looked around 70, her face was lined but she had quite 'young' clothes and make up, she had such beautiful eyes and auburn hair. It's all relative I think.

@Onanotherdiet38

We can't generalise like that. Some men will prefer, not settle for, women of their own age or only a few years younger. Dating someone 20-30 years older is pervy in my eyes so If they reject me then I'd rather be single and wait for someone who doesn't care that I'm not 20/30, which there will be

This is all just fantasy.

And women can generalise about their own lived experience and those of the other women of similar age that they know.

ime, the people most reliably "invisible" ( = not served in Q, pushed out of way on the street, no one offers to carry their bags, no one listens to their opinions) -- are children. Followed closely by teenagers.

Socially marginalised groups are about on a par with teens --try being a homeless person trying to get served in a Q, voice your opinion or avoid being shoved around in a crowd. Similar if you are an Irish traveller.

I'm 47 and I just love it, I can't wait to be fifty. The less judgement of men I get, the happier I am, I'm not interested in them deciding my worth. Being invisible is wonderful to me.

And it's not just looks. We stop being taken seriously - we're just silly menopausal women. We're overlooked in the workplace. Our opinions don't matter

Fortunately that doesn't happen where I work. Maybe because my (both female) HOD and line manager are in that age group.

ime, the people most reliably "invisible" ( = not served in Q, pushed out of way on the street, no one offers to carry their bags, no one listens to their opinions) -- are children. Followed closely by teenagers.

I agree @lljkk

I think it all comes down to confidence. I’m 47, I still get a lot of attention / turn heads and am treated with respect in and out of the workplace (pubs, etc). I hold myself in the same regard as I did in my 30s and why not. I walk confidently into any room. I am self assured, have a high sense of self worth.

I think so many middle aged women believe being ‘invisible’ is a foregone conclusion and behave accordingly. Try a social experiment. Walk boldly into a room with your head held high, ask for something in a bar or shop with utmost confidence, with swagger. Behave like a cocky man. You won’t be invisible, I can assure you. Unless you want to be of course!

I think so many middle aged women believe being ‘invisible’ is a foregone conclusion and behave accordingly

I think you are spot on with this @AnIconOfImperfections. I don't turn heads (as far as I know), but I never have (as far as I know). TBH I'm not interested in turning heads so have never noticed whether I have or not.

You’re only in your 30s - you haven’t hit the ‘invisibility’ stage yet. I don’t just mean to the opposite sex.

When I say I feel invisible, I don't mean "I used to be so gorgeous, everyone stopped dead when I entered a room".

I mean "young men actually mistake me for a doorway and try to walk through me".

It's not mourning the loss of power that came with good looks - I never had that. It's mourning the loss of personhood that comes with being so insignificant to the world view of younger/teenage males that they can't actually see me at all.

I have an example, where I actually was invisible.

A family friend, he's around 25, literally couldn't see me one day.

I was walking across a car park, wide open area, no crowds, but I was walking behind a young woman. She was very attractive, lovely hair, tall , heels on etc. I saw this guy on the near distance. I know him very well, always say hello and chat (I'm almost 50).

His eyes were immediately on the woman, I saw his full attention on her, he locked his eyes on her 😆. I was a good 10 feet behind her , so it wasn't that his view was blocked. Even once he'd passed her he literally didn't see me, right there in front of him. I was so amused! I realised that might be what people mean by "invisible ".

It's not mourning the loss of power that came with good looks - I never had that. It's mourning the loss of personhood that comes with being so insignificant to the world view of younger/teenage males that they can't actually see me at all.

But why is it important to you to be seen by younger/teenage males? It’s not important to me at all.

I’ve always been a munter, and painfully shy, so being invisible is second nature. It isn’t always about age or looks.

@NeneValleyGirl

I’ve always been a munter, and painfully shy, so being invisible is second nature. It isn’t always about age or looks.

What's being a munter about if it's not about looks?! Other than a horrible way to describe yourself.

It's a bit like driving a Fiat 500 when you're used to driving a big car. Other drivers just move into your space as though you're not there, they get aggrieved at the mere fact that there is a little car in front of them when they should be in front of it, they assume that you're a slow or bad driver and beep when the red light goes green even though you're already moving.

Same thing when you get to late middle-age, unless you are power dressing and presenting a ball-breaking attitude (which wouldn't be my thing) some people either don't see you or think you are unimportant compared to them. Not everyone, obviously, but a noticable minority.

Denying it because you haven't reached that age and haven't experienced it is, in fact, doing the thing that you are denying, you are refusing to hear our lived experience because we are not important to you. You seek to silence our voices.

But why is it important to you to be seen by younger/teenage males? It’s not important to me at all.

I can only think getting served in shop ect or not being walked into - only time that would matter to me.

I actually don't find teen/younger men ignore me in shops or traveling- I think I give of a "mother" vibe currently (not intentailly and no idea how I'm doing it ) it's tending to be younger to middle aged women and "busy important" men though I can get rapidly seen when such men stare at my teenaged girls

@MsTSwift

For a few years humans are at their most beautiful that’s just fact! A pub used to go quiet when I walked in at my peak. Not now ha! Once you get over 26 ish have kids and life makes you look abit bedraggled it goes. Men too. Think of all those Greek statutes!

Love looking at young people at that age (not in a pervy way). Dds friends mum looking at our 15 year old gaggle sighed recently “they are just all so beautiful” and they are.

I genuinely don't get this. No disrespect to young people, but I just don't see this at all. Some young women are lovely looking, but in truth, the vast majority, like people of all ages, are just ordinary looking. Like all of us, some have pretty faces nice hair and good figures, others don't. Some have lovely complexions, others not so much. Looking back on my own old photographs, my friends and I in our teens and 20s were pretty enough, but certainly not stunning, and several of us look way better now. I get that a certain type of man has a youth fetish, but I think as women we ought to be a little cautious about the message we give when buying into it ourselves. Those young women that older women are waxing lyrical about for the 'glow' of their youth will be old themselves one day, and shouldn't have to feel their attractive years are behind them at 30.

I don’t think it is as you describe. I’m in my 30s and also wouldn’t expect a teenager to want to actually date me (nor would I want them to!) but it’s not about that.

If I’m struggling with a pram or heavy bag I always get helped at a station. People smile and often make eye contact even on the tube. If I am with my mother, for instance, it would generally be me that goes to order at a bar - I guess we both recognise I’d be more likely to be served first. I am aware that these things make life easier and I will struggle more when they are gone.

Not really anymore but in my twenties I do fully recognise that I got more than my fair share of free hot drinks at certain coffee shops (offered at the barista’s discretion I think) and used to be given random things for free from market stalls or bars or a really odd collection of places.. I’m not in any doubt as to why it happened and doesn’t really anymore.

Nah.Pretty much everyone looks better in their youth. The young men who were the Greek gods of the 6th form are now jowly middle aged men with beer bellies!

catfunk

Oh the irony of a young woman telling older women so say they feel invisible that their lives and shared experience isn't true 😂
.... come back to us in 10 years op....”

This. Young women are the worst! I got so fed up with literally being walked into that if I see it coming now I stop walking and they have to walk around me.

I think it's just an English thing.

In all of my 52 years I have never felt invisible, even when I was 15 stone 2lbs up until my 30's, lost a stack of weight and have been 7 and half stone for 17 years.

Fat or thin it has made no difference but then again I have never given a toss what anyone thinks about me whatever age, size I have been.

@Bagelsandbrie

I think you haven’t hit the age yet where you get “being invisible”. It’s not just about being sexually attractive, it’s about literally everyone overlooking you because they perceive you to be past it age wise and therefore (wrongly) believe your opinions etc and whole being aren’t important or valid anymore. That’s what it’s about and it sucks.

This is exactly it. It’s not about looks as much as it is about having a voice and being taken seriously. I have watched it happen gradually to my parents. My dad gradually became invisible. I even witnessed it happening to him during phone calls. His voice had become a little more hesitant and a little softer and he used to get talked over and dismissed by people on the other end of the phone. His questions and opinions were as relevant as ever though.

It happens to my mum too. More since she let her hair turn white. She still has a pretty confident speaking voice and it doesn’t happen to her as much on the phone yet.

@MaryTheWitch
“Society as a whole - the media, Hollywood, etc. - tells us that men get more attractive with age, whereas women become unattractive.”

Not really. Are you seriously telling me “society” thinks Leonardo Caprio, or Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, Russel Crowe, or David Beckham, are as attractive or more attractive as when they were in their 20s? Nah.

I do agree the decline is somewhat steeper for women celebrities - eg a Hollywood man in his 40s can still pass for “young” while for women it’s their 30s. But a lot of that is down to fairly universal beauty standards underpinned by biology. IE. women are attractive when they have a very clean/smooth complexion while a man can be handsome with a beard/facial hair. .

I,m just ordinary looking scrub up well, etc. But it's not about looks it's about perceived worthiness. If I went to a bar in my thirties I would get noticed and served in a timely manner. Just 2 days ago in my mid-fifties now, at a music event, waiting at the bar to be served, card in hand, 2 younger women walked up after me and barman serves one first, I let that one drop but when he went to serve the second one the "Excuse me I believe I was here before them" voice came out. I m sure he considered me a Karen, but I, 'll be fucked if I m going to be overlooked when I was blatantly there way before them. It's stuff like that. It's being at work and no one taking any notice of what you say despite 37 years in the role with a wealth of experience, it's the ageism from younger staff who treat you like some doddery old fool when in fact you can run rings around them.

I genuinely don't get this. No disrespect to young people, but I just don't see this at all.

Oh yes I’m sure it doesn’t happen to every young person at all and also I’m surely the rest of the world is largely oblivious. I remember one time getting cat called when I was with my Dh who was pretty furious on my behalf and also disbelieving when I told him I didn’t notice because it’s the kind of thing that happens every time I, and many women, simply leave the house. He hadn’t noticed even though most women experience it constantly and I feel like it probably similar for the “average” young person who doesn’t quite see what happens to other young people.

I’ve been to a televised stuffy event when a security guard ran at me and moved me to a different row (in front of the TV cameras). I’ve been the person that could be relied upon to skip the queues at clubs - I remember once a bouncer rolling his eyes at me bringing in a group of 8 all male friends but letting us all in for free anyway. I’ve been let into numerous paid for art galleries and museums and just waved away from the till by the attendant (always male). Just so many things and it was all the time. Life is just EASIER for a while and I can only prove that it happens by the fact that it doesn’t seem to so much anymore. It doesn’t mean I feel like my best years are behind me at all because that wasn’t really real life was it? And actually it was mostly inconsequential.

I am also honest about the fact that I reckon being “noticed” can go away even more - I am sure I’ll be waiting longer at bar or coffee shop counters or hotel counters in 10/20 years time. I’m sure people won’t smile and catch my eye on trains so much.

I think so many middle aged women believe being ‘invisible’ is a foregone conclusion and behave accordingly. Try a social experiment. Walk boldly into a room with your head held high, ask for something in a bar or shop with utmost confidence, with swagger. Behave like a cocky man. You won’t be invisible, I can assure you. Unless you want to be of course!

True. Also, many men these days dress the same when they are 70 as they did when they were 20, be it casual or casual smart. Whereas I think many women still choose to tone down and age their style.