Page 7 | When people say they're invisible/no longer turn heads

BitOutOfPractice · 08/04/2022 14:16

And still @Onanotherdiet38 you are continuing to measure older women by their appearance, grooming, attractiveness to men even in the face of scores of older women telling you about their lived experience

RampantIvy · 08/04/2022 14:40

@Ginajo

Im in my mid 50s. I've become invisible. I'm ignored in shops, work etc in the ways people have described here. It's been a massive dent to my self confidence and sense of worth. It's as if I no longer matter.

OP you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Why do you think that is? I am an unattractive 63 year old and don't get ignored in shops, at work etc.

LINABE · 08/04/2022 14:59

@Onanotherdiet38

Now in my 30s, I am probably considered ancient to a 19 year old male for instance, I don't expect them to find me attractive as in a prospective partner, but equally I couldn't care less what they think of my looks as i am not interested in 19 year old men myself.

At 50, I don't expect men in their 20s/30s to consider me as dating material, and I expect to be considered too old for them. I'm sure I could be considered attractive to men of a similar age/not too much younger.

If a 50 year old male rejected me as a 50 year old to date a 25 year old woman instead then I'd consider it a lucky escape really.

Surely it's all relative? I'm sure a lot of men in their 50s/60s do find 20 year olds highly sexually attractive but personally I wouldn't want to date someone who's aiming for that age.

I don't believe in the concept of invisible. People say they used to 'turn heads' a lot, but we don't see every single person looking at us. And surely validation shouldn't come from whether some man is gawping at us as we walk down the street.

I saw a woman the other day who looked around 70, her face was lined but she had quite 'young' clothes and make up, she had such beautiful eyes and auburn hair. It's all relative I think.

Ermm.... come back and post in about 15 years.

Longcovid21 · 08/04/2022 15:02

You're not there yet. It's about people suddenly thinking you're irrelevant, out of touch, etc., at precisely the tile your knowledge and experience peaks. You will know it when it hits you. Trust me

lljkk · 08/04/2022 19:52

sailed through life on a cloud of privilege

that's an interesting point. Is this 'woe is me I became invisible" narrative really a way of saying "How dare other people become more important than me! You plebs don't understand because you were never important"

RedHelenB · 08/04/2022 20:04

@Kendodd

I'm in my 50s, honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think I get ignored in queues etc. I don't get on street harrassment much anymore but that's it.

I agree. If anything, I think strangers are nicer to be now I'm in my 50s.

Longcovid21 · 08/04/2022 20:12

sailed through life on a cloud of privilege

Nope. Dealt with mysogony all my life. Still, this invisibility cloak is different. You'll see when you reach about 45.

5128gap · 08/04/2022 20:40

@lljkk

sailed through life on a cloud of privilege

that's an interesting point. Is this 'woe is me I became invisible" narrative really a way of saying "How dare other people become more important than me! You plebs don't understand because you were never important"

I think some posts are describing ageism and sexism that leads to being undervalued, not just a loss of advantage. But there's a definite whiff of what you say from some posts. Women who've been quite happy to enjoy the privilege over other women their looks once bought them, taking umbridge now the playing field has levelled. And I do understand, as I'm still (on borrowed time now) someone who gets treated well because men think I look nice. When I finally age out, I expect I won't like it one bit either. But that's my own fault for all the times ive accepted the offers of help, the free entry to places, the compliments, the attention in the first place. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

lljkk · 08/04/2022 22:01

@Longcovid21

sailed through life on a cloud of privilege

Nope. Dealt with mysogony all my life. Still, this invisibility cloak is different. You'll see when you reach about 45.

Ooh, I quite like that prospect! It would mean I was aging backwards & that sounds interesting as long as it doesn't go on for too long. I'm mid-50s now, see.

BogRollBOGOF · 08/04/2022 22:30

I was ignored in bars at 20- to the point where I was once ignored for half an hour while everyone else around me got served many times over, and by the time I'd finally been served, I couldn't find my group and had to neck my stupid bloody drink and go out into the street to phone up and find out where they'd gone. They thought I'd quietly headed off to get the bus home and moved on to the next pub. And DH wonders why I hate going up to the bar.

Fortunately outside of nightclubs, I've had compartively little unsolicited attention from men, although my running is mainly off road or in my dopey neighbourhood so that significantly reduces the opportunity for dickish comments from vehicles.

I always found it hard to be taken seriously as a professional and cut through collegues to make my point.

I have a small build and would physically blend in by height and shape with classes of 12 year olds and I think that's had a lot to do with it.

I always hoped that age would bring a bit more gravitas...
At least at 40, I'm doing OK with gravity anyway

VaddaABeetch · 08/04/2022 22:43

I was at an awards event this afternoon.

I was chatting to 3 other women who had all won awards. All 50s all confident, all well dressed, all at the top
Of our game.

Behind us in a little nook there were 3 of my female graduates chatting . It was quite funny. Men in their 40/50/60s Would wander up & try break through the line to get to the young women. We didn’t move for them.

I could see them get frustrated. None of the men were interested in passing the time of day with the older women. We were like an invisible force field!

HRTQueen · 08/04/2022 22:43

I wish it was just that

But it isnt. It’s your opinion being irrelevant in work meetings, being overlooked for promotion while your male colleagues of a similar age are not

There are plus sides to being this age and not caring so much about what others thing being one of them

HRTQueen · 08/04/2022 22:48

that protection older women give younger women is brilliant. I remember it being given to me now I am the one giving it

boronia · 08/04/2022 22:54

@Longcovid21

You're not there yet. It's about people suddenly thinking you're irrelevant, out of touch, etc., at precisely the tile your knowledge and experience peaks. You will know it when it hits you. Trust me

Yes this has just happened to a friend. Decades of experience in her field, a high powered job, she's 58. Her new manager is a 41 year old woman who passivel-agressively is trying to manage her out with continual references to my friend's age and the younger work team.

People who've coasted through life on either looks or youth ( I call it "pretty girl syndrome") are definitely in for a surprise once they turn 50 or so.

I'm think this is partly where the whole nasty " Karen" name calling thing has arisen: middle aged women having to get louder because they're ignored.

echt · 08/04/2022 22:57

@Onanotherdiet38

Now in my 30s, I am probably considered ancient to a 19 year old male for instance, I don't expect them to find me attractive as in a prospective partner, but equally I couldn't care less what they think of my looks as i am not interested in 19 year old men myself.

At 50, I don't expect men in their 20s/30s to consider me as dating material, and I expect to be considered too old for them. I'm sure I could be considered attractive to men of a similar age/not too much younger.

If a 50 year old male rejected me as a 50 year old to date a 25 year old woman instead then I'd consider it a lucky escape really.

Surely it's all relative? I'm sure a lot of men in their 50s/60s do find 20 year olds highly sexually attractive but personally I wouldn't want to date someone who's aiming for that age.

I don't believe in the concept of invisible. People say they used to 'turn heads' a lot, but we don't see every single person looking at us. And surely validation shouldn't come from whether some man is gawping at us as we walk down the street.

I saw a woman the other day who looked around 70, her face was lined but she had quite 'young' clothes and make up, she had such beautiful eyes and auburn hair. It's all relative I think.

First of all, not believing in the concept: you're in your 30s, so wait until it happens to you.

Not seen any evidence of 50s women expecting to pull much younger men. "Turning heads " is a metaphor, it's about being visibly noticed, though I've not seen evidence of women saying this on MN. It's not about the need for validation either, it's a fact.

The remarks about invisibility made upthread about being marginalised in the workplace are spot on.

Your remarks about the older woman you saw don't invalidate the invisibility. The invisibility is about male/female actions.

Ponoka7 · 09/04/2022 07:22

I can remember an early thread on the menopause and sharing tips. A few younger posters, in their 30's (we asked their age) came on calling us extremists, diet obsessed etc. It was things like cutting out dairy, fitting relaxation etc in. It took two pages of us challenging them and asking why they were dismissing what we were saying. This was our lived experience and why did they come onto a thread to belittle us. They ended up getting it and apologised. It took us comparing it to a man doing the same on a thread about periods, or pregnancy.
As well as media, music is another one. The stones, who all took advantage of thirteen year old groupies, but that's ignored, are still seen as icons etc, as is Tom Jones etc, but Madonna gets flack.

mjf981 · 09/04/2022 08:10

I'm late 30s. I have recently noticed the change when approaching reception staff, men and woman. Previously, they'd glance up and smile and be immediately welcoming. Now, they glance at me, then often look back at what they were working on, and a few seconds later ask if they can help; they also smile much less frequently. Its subtle, but the change is noticeable. It sucks a bit.

5128gap · 09/04/2022 09:03

Seeing no evidence of 50s women turning heads and attracting younger men doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I can assure you it does. It happens to me and my friends. All of us are dating younger men, (except a couple who are married) often very much younger. But, none of us are what the purists would call 'natural' 50s women. None of us have let our hair go grey. None of us eat to our appetites, so have avoided the weight gain that naturally occurs if a woman doesn't restrict herself quite strictly. Most of us spend more time exercising than we would prefer. Some of us have minimised age related sagging and wrinkling with light cosmetic procedures, drop of botox, a little filler. There's no way a lot of 50s women would want the faff of all that, and why should they? But that, not the year they were born makes the difference between invisibility to random men or not in middle age. So, unpalatable as it seems, I guess you pay your money and take your choice.

youlightupmyday · 09/04/2022 09:14

@Ahgoonyegirlye that maybe your friends but definitely not my experience. I am 48 and dated men 10-15 years younger than me until I met my partner, who is 50. He is handsome, wealthy and fit. He didn't want younger women because they would want kids. And his 3 long term relationships have all been with women his age

Bubblesdublin · 09/04/2022 09:54

Im late 30s and have not noticed anything like@mjf .

Cheesechips · 09/04/2022 11:36

I sometimes find the opposite can be a problem. I'm 37 so definitely not past it! But I've found I haven't been taken seriously professionally and in other areas of life until recently due to being petite and young looking. On a whole I think people are more respected in the work place as they get older. It also depends on the industry I guess. If you work in a field where most people are quite young it's bound to have a limited shelf life.

BitOutOfPractice · 09/04/2022 11:38

And still op you’re only reference for women’s success and happiness in later life is her relationship with / attractiveness to a male partner. Honestly? You sound 17 not in your 30s!

Gwenhwyfar · 09/04/2022 11:47

@5128gap

Seeing no evidence of 50s women turning heads and attracting younger men doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I can assure you it does. It happens to me and my friends. All of us are dating younger men, (except a couple who are married) often very much younger. But, none of us are what the purists would call 'natural' 50s women. None of us have let our hair go grey. None of us eat to our appetites, so have avoided the weight gain that naturally occurs if a woman doesn't restrict herself quite strictly. Most of us spend more time exercising than we would prefer. Some of us have minimised age related sagging and wrinkling with light cosmetic procedures, drop of botox, a little filler. There's no way a lot of 50s women would want the faff of all that, and why should they? But that, not the year they were born makes the difference between invisibility to random men or not in middle age. So, unpalatable as it seems, I guess you pay your money and take your choice.

You're sort of contradicting yourself because you're talking about women in their 50s who don't look like they're in their 50s.

Longcovid21 · 09/04/2022 17:27

*I was at an awards event this afternoon.

I was chatting to 3 other women who had all won awards. All 50s all confident, all well dressed, all at the top
Of our game.

Behind us in a little nook there were 3 of my female graduates chatting . It was quite funny. Men in their 40/50/60s Would wander up & try break through the line to get to the young women. We didn’t move for them.

I could see them get frustrated. None of the men were interested in passing the time of day with the older women. We were like an invisible force field!*

The above just sums it up entirely. It's not about turning heads, it's like you are an obstacle to try to get around. It is very obvious indeed.

Bubblesdublin · 09/04/2022 23:18

Last comment looks like a repeat.