When people say they're invisible/no longer turn heads

[Onanotherdiet38]

Now in my 30s, I am probably considered ancient to a 19 year old male for instance, I don't expect them to find me attractive as in a prospective partner, but equally I couldn't care less what they think of my looks as i am not interested in 19 year old men myself.

At 50, I don't expect men in their 20s/30s to consider me as dating material, and I expect to be considered too old for them. I'm sure I could be considered attractive to men of a similar age/not too much younger.

If a 50 year old male rejected me as a 50 year old to date a 25 year old woman instead then I'd consider it a lucky escape really.

Surely it's all relative? I'm sure a lot of men in their 50s/60s do find 20 year olds highly sexually attractive but personally I wouldn't want to date someone who's aiming for that age.

I don't believe in the concept of invisible. People say they used to 'turn heads' a lot, but we don't see every single person looking at us. And surely validation shouldn't come from whether some man is gawping at us as we walk down the street.

I saw a woman the other day who looked around 70, her face was lined but she had quite 'young' clothes and make up, she had such beautiful eyes and auburn hair. It's all relative I think.

@Sunshineboo

it's not about being attractive. i was unattractive when younger - so no stealth brag there - but people would hold a door open, be friendly, and listen when i spoke.

honest now it's different - i think invisible is the wrong word - it's irrelevant. it's only to
strangers - people i know are still as they were but if i ask for help in a shop, for directions, make small talk, hold a door for someone or walk though a door for someone else, it's like i am not there.

Exactly this. I have never been attractive and "turned heads" and couldn't care less, but being totally irrelevant as a middle-aged/older woman is not fun.

'I have never seen anyone who is invisible therefore don't believe in it' - not a brilliant argument when you think about it...

I've been able to turn the invisibility effect on and off by dyeing my hair or failing to these last few years.

As others have said, it's not just or often not at all about being considered part of the 'dating pool' by men. When my hair is white, I get bored, dismissive, slow or no responses from both men and women much more frequently. It's about tiny interactions, in clothes shops, cafes etc.

Sometimes when white I get extra friendly reactions of the 'offering a seat' variety. But mostly it's about being negligible.

I feel quite sorry for people for whom their looks are such a large part of their self worth

So do I.

but being totally irrelevant as a middle-aged/older woman is not fun.

Why do you feel irrelevant? At 63 I don't feel irrelevant. I am not attractive, I wear glasses, I have saggy jowls, but I hold my head up and smile at people. I am confident and assertive, and people respond to me in a positive way.

I can’t say I’ve experienced any of this.I was never especially attractive, so I haven’t dramatically lost any looks.I retrained in my 40s, changed careers again in my 50s and am now retired.Maybe I’ve been lucky but I don’t feel ignored or irrelevant in my early 70s, in fact I find people generally really helpful and friendly now. Perhaps they’re secretly thinking ‘poor old girl’, but if they’re pleasant and kind I can cope with that.

For me, I never really thought I was attractive. But now I'm really not I can see two things.

1. of course I bloody was and

1. as far as society was concerned it was the only thing about me that mattered.

Now as a middle aged women I'm angry not that no one fancies me but that I spent all those years thinking that what I said and did was interesting and that men (and women tbf) listened to it because it was significant in some small way. But no. It was always just about how much a man might want to fuck me, because I'm a woman and that's all that counts about us.

In my second marriage so have been attracted / attractive to at least 2 ! But I must have gone through life not really noticing if I'm getting ' the look ' from others or not .
Now older , I still don't notice if I'm turning heads , but can't ever remember having my head turned either . I must go through life in a bubble , and that's fine for me.

I was on a course at work, about team working, where we had various tasks to perform as teams, we were a local authority 'Leisure Services' dept. so included, men and women from libraries, leisure centres and sport centres of ages between 20s to 50s I was a woman aged about 58. When completing the tasks, I would usually spot quite early just what was required, and point it out, to be totally ignored by the young men in the group. This was noticed by the observers, and I was told I needed to 'speak up' I said that I did not have any problem being heard in my job situation, because the staff knew me and respected me, but the young course participants were too busy being impressive, to notice I was 'right' because they dismissed me on sight. This is what I felt, 'being invisible' meant, nothing to do with attraction.

@Goodyetalso

“ Yes this! If you walk in somewhere with your head held high and a big smile, people will notice you. Nice clothes, hair and makeup are important too. If you look confident, pulled together, happy, and, dare I say it, expensive…. People will notice you.”

Can you imagine anyone giving this advice to a man who had spent his 20s and 30s being regarded as attractive and successful? No. Because nobody stops thinking they’re important whether they’re smiling, looking expensive, have nice hair or not.

Ok, speculating here.. I don't think it's about smiling or being dressed expensively, but much more likely about being socialized into taking up space in public. Same thing we also see on the patriarchy chicken discussions. Women, infuriatingly, are all too often trained into being diffident and self-deprecating, so that may very well be part of the coin here. The other part being, of course, others being similarly trained into not perceiving them - just as with patriarchy chicken, just changing your own behaviour doesn't automatically change the behaviour/perceptions of others, hence them bumping into you once you stop stepping aside.

In a related vein, anyone else notice how op seems to suddenly have disappeared?

Theres no rules. We're all different in who we want to notice us, and how much we are noticed, and the link to how old we are is more tenuous that many people think. I'm 52 but still get chatted up by 20s/30s men, and stared at and 'complimented' by men in the street. (Also by 50+ men, but tbh, I'm not remotely interested in them, so they may as well be invisible to me.) In my early 40s I went through a stage of looking quite bad, and I suppose I was invisible then, if visible means male attention. Though I've never been ignored in queues. In my 20s, I looked averagely attractive for my age, but blended in with a sea of other reasonably attractive young women, similar generic clothes, hairstyle etc, as per the fashion, nothing special to draw attention, so was less visible then than now when I'm more distinctive.

When I was young, men used to offer to carry my bags for me. If I broke down a man would pull over and offer to help. I would get extra chips from the man in the chip shop, and a wink and a free biscuit from the man in the coffee shop. Men fell over themselves to do favours for me and talk to me. Now I’m middle aged and fat with greying hair and that doesn’t happen any more. That’s why I feel invisible.

I also think that the imaginary audience 'everyone's looking at me' mentality of teenagers actually lasts quite a bit longer than we believe.

I remember THINKING, at 23, that when I walked into a pub everyone was noticing me and how attractive I was.

Now I look at 23 year olds walking into pubs and I can see them thinking the same... AND I can see that nobody's paying them the least bit of attention.

Some of it is your own sense of self-importance falling away and being OK with just getting on with your day.

I have been told I'm attractive and so on but honestly I've never had this men carrying my bags, falling over their feet to help me etc, very occasionally been bought a drink in a pub but that's it. But then again getting older really doesn't mean just letting yourself go, stop bothering with your appearance.
Obviously the being ignored in work etc. Is unacceptable but I wonder if it's sometimes more sexism than ageism.

Why do you feel irrelevant? At 63 I don't feel irrelevant. I am not attractive, I wear glasses, I have saggy jowls, but I hold my head up and smile at people. I am confident and assertive, and people respond to me in a positive way.

This is interesting. I am 61. The other day I went into town to do some shopping. I hadn’t been for a while and was looking forward to it. As I came out of the mall lift from the car park I was striding along with head up thinking “this is great” and I noticed people looking. Attitude does matter I think.

People who are young also get taken less seriously sometimes or ignored

I'm 50 and I don't relate to this at all. In life generally, I think I get treated just as well and get just as much attention as I ever did. Possibly better, as I think am more relaxed and confident. At work, I definitely get more attention and respect. People take more notice of me and take me more seriously. I was never a stunner, and am happy (pleasantly surprised even?) with the way I look now. Perhaps I never attracted all that much superficial sexual attention in the first place, so there wasn't any to lose? I don't know. I never had a problem when I wanted it!

None of this thread rings a bell and I don't think those of you 20 years younger than me should assume it will happen. I imagine it could be self-fulfilling - if you expect to be invisible and lose confidence, that may be what you perceive.

When I was young, men used to offer to carry my bags for me

My mum gets that though, she's 83. I don't see what that has to do with anything.

@Onanotherdiet38

"People who are young also get taken less seriously sometimes or ignored"

That's based on a lack of experience, knowledge or that their ideas here been tried and failed. Older women are written off just because of their age. It's all part of the same sexism. It's younger women who are more ignored than younger men. Younger women have a much easier time in a team with a male manager compared like for like with an older woman.

@KimWexlersPonyTail

I thought like Op tilI I hit 50 and people mostly men would talk over me in meetings, nothng I said was put in the minutes, ignored in pubs and cafes, also viewed differently in health care settings. Its a real shock when it happens. Often those ignoring me in work were men in their 50s

Not being seen in some shops.

I actually based on FIL and Dad do think it happens to men but not till they are mid to late 70s. FIL especially strugged with NHS consultants - stuff I'd shrug off he got very upset about because he wasn't used to being treated like that - increasingly happening in shops. I think it partically ill health affected his confidence as well.

It's not about "turning heads".
Being invisible as a middle-aged woman means doors being let go in your face, people walking into you, not moving out of your way, men looking through you, other women ignoring you. It isn't just about men or whether men fancy you. If only. I know it's real because it happened to me when I hit 55.
The worst is those heavy shop doors being let go by people and hitting me. That never happened to me before, now it's all the time.
Then there's going to a reception desk and being invisible and having to say "Excuse me" over and over again while young women and men get served before you. My husband has noticed it and is shocked.

I think it's this:

• Men look and think "not fertile", therefore irrelevant -women look and see no competition or threat to them, so ignore

I know some women compensate by wearing bright clothes, lots of make-up, striking looking hair and standing right out, and that seems to work.

I was never good-looking or particularly attractive so it's not about the loss of looks for me. And generally when out and about I'm treated with courtesy as before.

The main thing I noticed was at work when the boss (only a few years younger than me) and senior team put young women on a pedestal and praised their ideas to the heavens, no matter if these ideas were not new, or juvenile or useless. He couldn't wait for women over fifty to retire, even though some of them were the best staff he had.

I was also at times brushed aside or patronised by some of the young women on the staff, though not those in my my own team!

"Is unacceptable but I wonder if it's sometimes more sexism than ageism."

Then the question is does the same apply to 50+ men.

What I have noticed since the age of 25 is that I have become more visible as they don't think I am a young air-headed child who needs mansplaining at (which was bloody annoying in itself) Men and women take my opinions seriously, listen to what I have to say, ask me for help, rely on my knowledge and advice. So I find the opposite in my mid 40s, I feel more visible, heard, listened to, relevant and that I have a voice.

People who are young also get taken less seriously sometimes or ignored

Yes, this is very true. DD (21) gets ignored a lot. She doesn't wear make up and looks a lot younger.

The women I work with who are 30 years older than me, I respect them a lot and look up to them. I am so surprised to hear that people have doors flung in their face.