Page 6 | When people say they're invisible/no longer turn heads

Butchyrestingface · 08/04/2022 12:26

I'm early 40s. Apart from a brief, halcyon moment in my mid to late teens, I have always felt invisible (to men and women).

The OP is in her 30s. So unless she has suffered dramatic, premature ageing, I can't see how she's at all placed to comment on the experience of older women in the workplace, in the community, society at large.

Just seems like another way to trivialise/deny the lived experience of some women because she's too young to have encountered it yet. .

Isobelslider · 08/04/2022 12:28

@MaryTheWitch

It's not just about finding validation from men finding us attractive though. Society as a whole - the media, Hollywood, etc. - tells us that men get more attractive with age, whereas women become unattractive.

And it's not just looks. We stop being taken seriously - we're just silly menopausal women. We're overlooked in the workplace. Our opinions don't matter.

That's what people mean by being invisible. It's not just being good looking.

Totally agree with this.

I've never been one to turn heads in the first place and that's fine. But I've experienced it first hand in work where I have been overlooked based on my age and being female in favour of men the same age who do not have my level of expertise.

superdupertruper · 08/04/2022 12:30

@Onanotherdiet38

If you didn't know Elle MacPherson was famous and she walked down the street, I'm fairly sure she would still turn a lot of heads even at nearly 60.

I can answer that one. We happened to see her in London the other week. I can honestly say it made me feel a whole lot better about myself. These women who are classed as supermodels aren't just prettier,taller,thinner versions of us. They are another species. I have never seen anyone so striking in my life. She could not be anything other than a supermodel. She was so tall and thin yet beautiful in a way I have never seen. It stopped me in my tracks. I could never achieve this in a million years so I just have to make do with what I have now

707smile · 08/04/2022 12:33

Yeah I don't understand it.

Why do we (women) need to turn heads in order to feel like valued members of society? Why should men feel like they can ignore women just because they are not attractive? Why should women be treated as irrelevant past the age of 50, but men be seen as sophisticated and highly valued at the same age? It's all very messed up.

SpotALeopard · 08/04/2022 12:34

@Movemyshed - your comment about the make manager is exactly what I was trying to get at with my earlier LinkedIn point. I think it’s easy for male managers to boost young women who are no threat to them and get the feel-good sensation of being pro-woman as a result. All the more appealing if they are attractive.

Which I do think explains why young, conventionally attractive women are over-represented in my LI feed and also in news about diversity, IWD, etc. Men like helping them out, even if it’s just a like on SM.

I’ll feel more positive about being female in the workplace when I see more good news stories about women in their forties and over.

707smile · 08/04/2022 12:35

Also as a fat woman (early 30s, less than average attractiveness) I can say that it's not just age related. I've been slimmer and there's definitely a certain nasty percentage of men who will only treat you nicely if you're attractive.

Being less attractive lets you see who is genuine and who is superficial and misogynist.

707smile · 08/04/2022 12:36

*misogynistic

Gwenhwyfar · 08/04/2022 12:43

What a really, really, really stupid OP to write in your thirties.

SpotALeopard · 08/04/2022 12:45

I wonder if there are stages of this too. While I don’t get doors slammed in my face or blatantly ignored, I remember a time when men eagerly sought out my views on things and wanted to get to know me in any social setting. They often weren’t actively flirting, but merely talking to a young woman was appealing to them. That stopped in my late 20s.

A few years ago (late 30s) a hairdresser (early 20s) was talking to me about my hair, which was thinning a bit at the time. She chirpily said I could go to my GP, but they would probably ignore me as “just another middle-aged woman going through the menopause”. She had no tips on how to improve it - clearly thought there was no point bothering. I felt absolutely shit that she’d not only viewed me that way but thought it was so blindingly obvious that there was no need to be tactful about it!

So, yeah, stages.

5128gap · 08/04/2022 12:50

@thewhatsit

I genuinely don't get this. No disrespect to young people, but I just don't see this at all.

Oh yes I’m sure it doesn’t happen to every young person at all and also I’m surely the rest of the world is largely oblivious. I remember one time getting cat called when I was with my Dh who was pretty furious on my behalf and also disbelieving when I told him I didn’t notice because it’s the kind of thing that happens every time I, and many women, simply leave the house. He hadn’t noticed even though most women experience it constantly and I feel like it probably similar for the “average” young person who doesn’t quite see what happens to other young people.

I’ve been to a televised stuffy event when a security guard ran at me and moved me to a different row (in front of the TV cameras). I’ve been the person that could be relied upon to skip the queues at clubs - I remember once a bouncer rolling his eyes at me bringing in a group of 8 all male friends but letting us all in for free anyway. I’ve been let into numerous paid for art galleries and museums and just waved away from the till by the attendant (always male). Just so many things and it was all the time. Life is just EASIER for a while and I can only prove that it happens by the fact that it doesn’t seem to so much anymore. It doesn’t mean I feel like my best years are behind me at all because that wasn’t really real life was it? And actually it was mostly inconsequential.

I am also honest about the fact that I reckon being “noticed” can go away even more - I am sure I’ll be waiting longer at bar or coffee shop counters or hotel counters in 10/20 years time. I’m sure people won’t smile and catch my eye on trains so much.

Well, obviously you were an attractive young woman then. I'm not denying that being attractive brings one special treatment. I'm suggesting that simply being young does not.

Snog · 08/04/2022 12:59

I'm 53 and I don't feel invisible.
I don't dye my hair or wear make up, I'm not thin and I don't work out. I'm just average looking.

I'm not looking for a new partner so maybe things would be different if I was in that situation.

Stompythedinosaur · 08/04/2022 13:02

There's a shocking number of pps who would like to buy in to the misogynistic trope that if women "just acted different" men wouldn't treat them badly.

There is an abundance of evidence of the way middle aged women are made invisible by society - lack of media representation is one, the widely reported lived experiences of women in this age group is another. I fully accept there may be some women who haven't experienced this discrimination, but that doesn't change the fact that many (I suspect most) women do.

As with all issues of discrimination, the onus for change rests with the oppressor, not the oppressed. It is never women's fault that they are discriminated against or that some women behave like the victims of discrimination that they are.

thewhatsit · 08/04/2022 13:18

[quote Pitafalafel]@MaryTheWitch
“Society as a whole - the media, Hollywood, etc. - tells us that men get more attractive with age, whereas women become unattractive.”

Not really. Are you seriously telling me “society” thinks Leonardo Caprio, or Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, Russel Crowe, or David Beckham, are as attractive or more attractive as when they were in their 20s? Nah.

I do agree the decline is somewhat steeper for women celebrities - eg a Hollywood man in his 40s can still pass for “young” while for women it’s their 30s. But a lot of that is down to fairly universal beauty standards underpinned by biology. IE. women are attractive when they have a very clean/smooth complexion while a man can be handsome with a beard/facial hair. .[/quote]
I think it’s probably easier for a man to maintain the right Hollywood kind of body than a woman as they don’t have the hormonal changes of pregnancy or more importantly, menopause. I’ve noticed that a lot of famous women just tend to disappear from public view once they hit menopausal age whereas a man is only ever a year older than he was the year before.

One important thing I think for famous men known for being attractive is hair. There are a few (Jason Statham?) men who seem to have no problem once balding but I don’t think this applies for the majority of famously attractive men. A lot of men in the public eye getting hair transplants would seem to suggest that they see it as vital to maintaining their appeal. I’m sure someone like Jude Law could talk at length about how parts of men dry up with a receding hair line (and re-emerge with a transplant?).

DressingPafe · 08/04/2022 13:23

I think it's too simplistic to say its all about attitude and confidence. It's putting the onus back on the woman for behaving in the "wrong" way. I don't like that. It is not up to me to change the way society perceives me. I'm not going to put on an "act" so I feel more visible. I'm just me and I haven't fundamentally changed my personality over the years. I am probably more confident now than I was, as I had some insecurities in my younger years that I care less about now. But I'm not going to strive to be more confident or more outgoing to get people to (maybe) treat me better.

WeSellAnyBra · 08/04/2022 13:29

I’m 45.

I don’t get pervy looks or comments from random men much anymore. That stopped in my late thirties, thank God.

I do get chatted up from time to time, but I shut it down quickly and I think I’ve developed a ‘Dont fuck with me’ aura that scares the creeps off.

I couldn’t give a flying fuck if I am or become ‘invisible’ to men on the prowl!

Yesterday I was at a pool on a swanky rooftop hotel with my 75 yr old Mum (we are on holiday abroad at the moment). There were a group of 20-something lads who didn’t give us a second look and I felt SO refreshed and relieved that I’m not 25 anymore and would’ve been self conscious and aware of them checking me out in a bikini. Relief from the male gaze - priceless!

NandorTheRelentlessCleaner · 08/04/2022 13:33

The visibility things has positive and negative connotations

Am 50 now

Was wearing shorts the other day (nothing exciting, I was going out for a run) and stupid van men beeped their horns and shouted, like they always do ... and I felt a surge of rage thinking "I'm surely too old for this shit", wonder when that will stop. Honestly, if at 50 and with veiny cellulity legs I still get this "attention " I am assuming it never stops

My mum, at 80, still got chatted up by a guy at the physio... I reckon that, like OP says, the attention just comes from blokes your own age or older

So not experienced this invisibility thing yet

But quite happy for it to happen tbh

I have never relished male attention like that, as a kid I dreamed of an invisibility cloak

mustlovegin · 08/04/2022 13:34

Nice clothes, hair and makeup are important too. If you look confident, pulled together, happy, and, dare I say it, expensive…. People will notice you

I agree with this. We need to make an effort though, whereas when women are young, things tend to happen more naturally.

Ozanj · 08/04/2022 13:34

@Onanotherdiet38

Now in my 30s, I am probably considered ancient to a 19 year old male for instance, I don't expect them to find me attractive as in a prospective partner, but equally I couldn't care less what they think of my looks as i am not interested in 19 year old men myself.

At 50, I don't expect men in their 20s/30s to consider me as dating material, and I expect to be considered too old for them. I'm sure I could be considered attractive to men of a similar age/not too much younger.

If a 50 year old male rejected me as a 50 year old to date a 25 year old woman instead then I'd consider it a lucky escape really.

Surely it's all relative? I'm sure a lot of men in their 50s/60s do find 20 year olds highly sexually attractive but personally I wouldn't want to date someone who's aiming for that age.

I don't believe in the concept of invisible. People say they used to 'turn heads' a lot, but we don't see every single person looking at us. And surely validation shouldn't come from whether some man is gawping at us as we walk down the street.

I saw a woman the other day who looked around 70, her face was lined but she had quite 'young' clothes and make up, she had such beautiful eyes and auburn hair. It's all relative I think.

In real life most straight men opt for women the same / similar age but that doesn’t mean they want women who ‘look’ their age. If you go on many boards aimed at older women they all say how impossible it is to find a new man at 50 AND be comfortable in your own skin if you aren’t beautiful / look your age.

beattieedny · 08/04/2022 13:35

I fine it a relief to be much less eye catching than when I was young. I still look good and take care of myself and have fantastic legs if I do say so, but at fifty I'm happy to just be a decent looking mature woman. Happy to be!

mustlovegin · 08/04/2022 13:42

It's putting the onus back on the woman for behaving in the "wrong" way. I don't like that. It is not up to me to change the way society perceives me. I'm not going to put on an "act" so I feel more visible

The onus is not 100% on the woman, but we do have some responsibility on this. Others will see what they will see, and if we 'let ourselves go', so to speak, that is what others will perceive.

astorsback · 08/04/2022 13:48

You may not care but some people do care.

If you're used to heads turning wherever you go, be they male or female, it's disconcerting when it stops. No more doors being opened, no more looks of admiration, or smiles your way. No more random strangers telling you you look amazing and asking where you buy your clothes, who does your hair and what your beauty secrets are. No more free drinks, random flowers, gifts, comments such as "wow" or "beautiful" as you walk by. People no longer stop and let you pass with a smile (just barge straight past you). You can spend ages trying to get served as nobody notices you.

It's a real shock being treated just like everyone else if you've previously sailed through life on a cloud of privilege.

Of course we shouldnt seek external validation but a lot of people cant help it.

Now in my fifties, I rather enjoy being able to go out unfettered and unacosted by men.

lljkk · 08/04/2022 13:54

It's a bit like driving a Fiat 500 when you're used to driving a big car.

that's a funny analogy -- our household has both. I haven't noticed difference on the road, how other cars treat me when I drive them. Maybe our big car (7 seaters) isn't big enough ??

All the men I knew when I was young & still know now nobody is an Adonis. All of us have 'diminished' in looks which is fine by me. Some of them aren't fat &/or balding.

Ginajo · 08/04/2022 13:59

Im in my mid 50s. I've become invisible. I'm ignored in shops, work etc in the ways people have described here. It's been a massive dent to my self confidence and sense of worth. It's as if I no longer matter.

OP you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

UniBallEye · 08/04/2022 14:05

@Kendodd I totally agree with you, I simply don't get this perspective at all.

I am 52 and have never been ignored in a queue, or pushed out of the way by a man in work. In fact I am the most senior person in my organisation and I own it entirely. I have never felt more in control and knowledgable as I am now. I have 30 years experience in my field and I have confidence gained though years of graft.

I was attractive in my younger years and I still feel attractive now. I am older, have more wrinkles and more weight than I did but I am still alive and vibrant.

I don't expect to be attractive to 20 something year olds but I still get compliments / nice attention (not leechy) from men in my age group.

I have lots of interests and like to think I can hold a good conversation and that is generally an attractive trait.

I have a great group of female friends with a similar outlook.

Stompythedinosaur · 08/04/2022 14:07

@mustlovegin

It's putting the onus back on the woman for behaving in the "wrong" way. I don't like that. It is not up to me to change the way society perceives me. I'm not going to put on an "act" so I feel more visible

The onus is not 100% on the woman, but we do have some responsibility on this. Others will see what they will see, and if we 'let ourselves go', so to speak, that is what others will perceive.

I would respectfully disagree with this.

The idea that women shouldn't "let themselves go" is connected to the idea that women's value rests in their attractiveness to men, rather than being valuable as people.