Who is being unreasonable? (If anyone!)

[Specter123]

John and Jane have been together for 6ish years. They bought a house together 2 years ago - no DC yet and not married.

John has had a tough time during the pandemic. He started a new job, had a falling out with the manager and left without a job to go to. He has also been diagnosed with a mental health condition during the pandemic and is now medicated but still working out the right dose etc.

Jane has worked throughout the pandemic. She has picked up John's share of the housework while everything has been going on and is now the sole breadwinner. She is also a carer for an elderly parent. She does however work from home pretty much permanently now.

John has now decided he does not see himself back in paid employment for at least another year so he can get himself straight, find new coping mechanisms and pursue a complete career change. He has savings to continue to pay his share for approx another 2 months. He has been paying towards the bills since he left employment (albeit, at a reduced rate) but these savings are now running out. Jane brings home a reasonable salary, enough to run the household without a contribution although things would be very tight.

Jane feels like she is carrying the load solo and sees this as evidence that what she assumed would be a short term thing is now becoming long term, unilaterally decided by John.

John is hurt by this and sees it as Jane being selfish and unsupportive. He honestly believes that a career change is necessary to protect his mental health and that he would be much better suited to this other career.

YABU - Jane is unreasonable
YANBU - John is unreasonable

I really hope you tell him you want some space and he moves back home while you really think about what YOU want.

You have supported him for months, it really is NOT too much to ask.

If he says NO, it is just another example of how selfish he is IMO.

I've been thinking about this thread since I posted on it. I do so hope you don't take any excuses. I'm a grown adult with adhd and I struggle with all the things you've mentioned. But you know what? I prioritise work, housework, taking care of the kids. I let my hobbies go first, then socialising. Because I am a responsible adult who doesn't treat other adults as a safety net.

I do so hope you can prioritise yourself here, Jane

@MaryAndHerNet

Jane works 40 hours for cash. John should do 40 hours worth of house work.

That's even.

If there is mental health problems so bad he can't do housework, then hospitalisation would be necessary.
My bet is he's a lazy fucker using mental health problems to become a cock lodger.

1. in what world is it possible to do 40 hours of housework a week?
2. a debilitating mental illness making routine takes such as housework near impossible does not lead to hospitalisation - what a fatuous comment
3. actually, I’ll leave it there.

I left my job during a huge bipolar episode. Partner supported me. I couldn’t work for a while and he did a lot with regards to everything. A month ago he left a contract that was making him ill and I’m supporting him until he starts his new job soon. We’re partners, isn’t that what we do?

Thank you for your comments @1MillionSelfiesTakenByMyKids

I'm hoping to have a good chat this week. I've sent him some info on benefits after this thread as I hadn't realised he may be eligible.

I'm hoping we'll at least be understanding each other a little better after that chat.

I feel like my husband and I are circling around becoming John and Jane. I'm really hoping he stays working though because honestly I'd really struggle being the only support for our family, but equally I adore him and want him to be healthy and happy.

Is John taking ownership of his mental health condition? Engaging with treatment?

I'd worry that a year is such a specific time to get 'fixed' I don't know how he knows this will work.

I’ve been with my DH for 20yrs, married for 14. During that time I went from being higher earner to cutting my hours after dc1 and 2, to taking voluntary redundancy and being a SAHM for almost 2.5yrs when pregnant with dc3. DH was made redundant in April 2019 and we were solely on benefits until I got a job in Nov 2020. DH switched career paths and got a job in august last year and is now back to earning more than me.

During the past 2 years we have seen so many of our friends relationships come unstuck over finances. We have always been a team and any major decisions have been made jointly. We are not perfect - far from it! - but we have come out the other side of lockdown despite all our ups and downs financially because we were both working in the best interests of the family. When DH was SAHD he was the one homeschooling (shudder) on the days I was working. He was sorting the food, sticking a load on….

What gets me about your posts isn’t the fact that John has a diagnosis. It’s the fact that he feels it’s ok for him to unilaterally decide what he does with no input from you - yet you’re expected to shoulder the household finances. I never realised the stress that caused until that was me from nov 2019-aug 2020 even with some UC as a buffer. For him to put that burden on you without your choice is very selfish and I’d worry about that as a character flaw in any future life partner. Be very careful OP. 💐

Hi Specter123,

I want to say please try and put yourself first. Sadly there are no guarantees in how this will pan out for you in terms of recovery and having a fufilling and happy relationship.

Sadly, I have seen how mental health affects marriages/families, my dad, sister and then my husband all struggled with their demons and health.. Couldn't contribute financially but even more so lacked the ability to put anyone but themselves first. Relationships suffered and in all the cases, the responsible partner shouldered all the burden and got nothing back. We end up as martyrs, with layers of resentment as you put your own happiness on hold as your emotional needs are not being met.

In my case: I so wish I had taken the advice of my ex-husbands doctor to truly understand the grief I was taking on board. We were married for 10 years, 3 rounds of inpatient care at an expensive clinic, 4 years of not working as it would affect his mental health... All whilst I carried the weight of the being the only earner and running the house. The biggest regret I have is that in the time spent dedicating my life to his well-being, I put off having children as didn't want to inflict the life that I had growing up... In all honesty, I wish I had pulled the plug in year 2... I was too naive to understand what lay ahead.. Thinking I could fix him but sadly that was never to be the case.

I implore you that you make a decision with timelines in place for change whether it be him going back to work, the emotional support you receive from him and keep measuring the effects that this current situation is having on your own well-being too.

Sending you much love and hope xx

@Specter123

Thank you for your comments *@1MillionSelfiesTakenByMyKids*

I'm hoping to have a good chat this week. I've sent him some info on benefits after this thread as I hadn't realised he may be eligible.

I'm hoping we'll at least be understanding each other a little better after that chat.

Good luck.

Have you read through your posts. They're all about your guilt and fear and feeling powerless.

Which is weird as he is ill and yet calling all the shots, planning his future (and yours) doing literally exactly as he pleases.

You say I hadn't realised he might be eligible.

Why hadn't he realised? I thought he was clever and successful and got promotions?
What is the bet he won't check these entitlements?

How were things between before all this started, OP? What ideas and plans did you have for your future together? Do you still talk about any those things? Do you still want a future together?
Having dealt with poor mental health for many years, I think it’s important to think about the above, as well as the more short-term challenges.
If how things are right now put you off thinking further ahead, then I think that’s a big red flag.
I also think you should NOT feel guilty about thinking about yourself. John has to want to get better, he HAS to take control and take responsibility or else he will lose himself completely. No one else can do it for him. By all means care about him, listen to him and support him but don’t indulge him in ‘checking out’ from life, it ultimately won’t do him any favours.

@GabriellaMontez

Great post.

He's very sure about his needs and plans isn't he.

Very sure he'll use the OP to pay and skivvy for him whilst he focuses on his needs, health and hobbies.

🙄

@Foreverhope1 speaks the truth of how this often pans out for the poor skivvy workhorse keeping all the balls in the air.

What a waste of a precious life.

b I say this as someone with severe MH problems in the family (two close relatives). They destroyed their partners' well being without being happy themselves until finally they're living alone and are actually more stable.b
This! Two contrasting relatives, both with diagnosed mh issues. One started not getting up for work in the morning and spending hours each day (and night) gaming and in chat rooms. Always able to go on dates but too ill for work. Moved back in with mother (without asking) and Would surface occasionally either with extravagant plans for new amazing life or to launch abusive tirades at whole family about how they were dreadful people who had been so whatever (insert insult of choice -it varied) that they'd destroyed his life and were therefore no longer family. Only got his act together once family persuaded mother to sell up and move in with them by the sea as she'd always wanted. He sulked for a year while "punishing" family regularly in abusive emails, tried to persuade various exes to reconnect and let him move in before finally getting his act together, actually going to work and now has a secure tenancy.

Other person recognised that actually the routine of having to go to work was helpful, has always supported themselves and their children, however hard, and despite also having long term physical conditions causing pain has gradually identified the things that help their MH (regular meals, exercise and tidy surrounding s) and th e things to avoid (no routine, skipping meals, and a particular painkiller that makes them feel suicidal-literally) I know which one I would be prepared to live with.. .

Oops sorry -didnt mean that to be so long

Thanks everyone- the relationship was really positive before this. We match on basically everything else but this feels wrong and hence starting the thread.

It's a difficult one because leaving him would be incredibly sad. I'm hoping this conversation will help but I'm prepared if it doesn't.

Thanks again all - it's been really useful to get an outsiders view - MN at its best!

Before your chat OP, another thing to think about. If this is the new John, of he promises all the change in the world that never comes, how will your life be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? Can you see yourself living with new John for 20 years?

Think of the life you want.
Think if new John fits.
Be aware of 'sunk cost fallacy'

@MaryAndHerNet

Jane works 40 hours for cash. John should do 40 hours worth of house work.

That's even.

If there is mental health problems so bad he can't do housework, then hospitalisation would be necessary.
My bet is he's a lazy fucker using mental health problems to become a cock lodger.

this

When adults want to retrain, they often have to work at least part-time if not full-time simultaneously. That is just part of being an adult.

I've been the John in this situation and my DH has been the Jane. My mental health has been horrendous at times and there's been times when I've been way too ill to work (I think if my DH hadn't been so good at keeping the balls in the air I would have been sectioned) and DH has had to do majority of childcare and household tasks.

However, despite that I do not think you would be being unreasonable if you do not want to take this on. It sometimes baffles me why my DH is still with me. I do work now but my mental health is such that it could easily rear up again at any point. Perhaps a key difference is I've very actively engaged with services and medication to do my utmost to get better equipped at dealing with life. I think the time to get out is now before you're married and certainly before you have kids and it sounds as if deep down this is what you want to do and I absolutely do not think there is anything wrong with that.

So, we're both home at the same time tomorrow for the first time since I posted the thread.

I am a little nervous but it's been great to hear all your thoughts.

The main bit I keep tripping over, how can I start this conversation without it seeming like I'm kicking him while he's down? I keep thinking, how bad would I feel if I was going through a rough time in work, was ill and then my DP started talking about me not pulling my weight? I'd always want to be contributing but I guess these things do wax and wane over a lifetime as others on the thread have mentioned. What if this is just a bump in the road that won't even matter 10 years down the line?

Any perspectives very welcome!

picking up new hobbies that encourage him to get out the house and to meet new people etc

But you know, doing some volunteer work, or a non-skilled relatively easy-going job, part-time, would achieve the same things.

As PP say, routine is actually quite important. I’m reading a book by a psychotherapist at the moment, who says that keys to DIY mental self-care are a regular bedtime and getting up time, and making your bed every day!

A hobby is a bit self-indulgent if he can’t bring himself to do housework…

And he should be trying to do some housework - once it becomes routine (eg on Wednesday I change the bed linen, on Friday I clean the oven) then that can relieve mental stress. You just do it, without thinking about it. No choices needed, just routine.

There is a calmness to habit and ritual.

You sound much nicer than I would be in this situation @Specter123. I’m afraid I’d be out of there.

Good luck with your conversation. Remember, you are an equal in the relationship and deserve to have your needs met, and your feelings heard and respected. At the moment, this is not the man with whom to have children. If you want children, then that may be something to think about very hard.

@Specter123

So, we're both home at the same time tomorrow for the first time since I posted the thread.

I am a little nervous but it's been great to hear all your thoughts.

The main bit I keep tripping over, how can I start this conversation without it seeming like I'm kicking him while he's down? I keep thinking, how bad would I feel if I was going through a rough time in work, was ill and then my DP started talking about me not pulling my weight? I'd always want to be contributing but I guess these things do wax and wane over a lifetime as others on the thread have mentioned. What if this is just a bump in the road that won't even matter 10 years down the line?

Any perspectives very welcome!

I think there are two things you have to talk about regardless of whether this is a bump or not:

1. You aren't coping too well. You are finding the stress of everything you now have to do too much. So you need, between you, to work out a way to lessen the load on you so that you don't end up in the same position as John in 3 months time.
2. His presumption about you being able to pick up the slack rather than him approaching it as something you need to agree on together (because - point 1).

Try not to make it about you saying "no" but about you both focusing on how you're going to make his plan work with a big chunk dedicated to how disappointed you are that he didn't approach it as a team effort in the first place.

And don't expect to get everything worked out in one discussion. It sounds like you both have some adjusting to do to see things from the other's perspective (and him, more so than you, I suspect) and that normally takes contemplation time as well as discussion. And if it's feeling like it's going nowhere, consider a relationship counsellor to help take the sting out of some of the communicating.

Thank you for your thoughts @NumberTheory I really like the idea of facing it as a challenge we need to work out a way to overcome.

I don't think there would be anything wrong with you letting him know that you've struggled on and tried to manage in order to protect his MH either. He needs to recognise the strain you've been under and that you have now reached your limit and need to reduce it, as NumberTheory says, before you end up in the same boat as John. He's not currently seeing that every bit of responsibility he drops you have to pick up and your load just gets heavier so that needs pointing out too.

@MaryAndHerNet

Jane works 40 hours for cash. John should do 40 hours worth of house work.

That's even.

If there is mental health problems so bad he can't do housework, then hospitalisation would be necessary.
My bet is he's a lazy fucker using mental health problems to become a cock lodger.

What utter rubbish. I have had mental health problems so severe I was unable to do housework, there is no way I'd have been hospitalised- the bar for hospitalisation is extremely high.

If John lived alone, is he ill enough that social services would provide for a carer to do his housework? If not, (and I suspect he isn't) then he needs to do some. Being ill doesn't get you out of that responsibility. I would say exactly the same if he had a physical health problem.

I have a partner with a chronic health problem. It isn't a free ride for him not to contribute, it is a matter of establishing which parts of contributing to the family he can do.

The other thing is, assuming John's mental health difficulty includes a depressive element, that motivation to do things doesn't spontaneously start. Action comes before motivation. You have to force yourself to do things, sometimes, before you start to feel the motivation to want to do them.

Saying he needs a year off work just sounds like he is avoiding having to go back.