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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who is being unreasonable? (If anyone!)

223 replies

Specter123 · 26/03/2022 21:22

John and Jane have been together for 6ish years. They bought a house together 2 years ago - no DC yet and not married.

John has had a tough time during the pandemic. He started a new job, had a falling out with the manager and left without a job to go to. He has also been diagnosed with a mental health condition during the pandemic and is now medicated but still working out the right dose etc.

Jane has worked throughout the pandemic. She has picked up John's share of the housework while everything has been going on and is now the sole breadwinner. She is also a carer for an elderly parent. She does however work from home pretty much permanently now.

John has now decided he does not see himself back in paid employment for at least another year so he can get himself straight, find new coping mechanisms and pursue a complete career change. He has savings to continue to pay his share for approx another 2 months. He has been paying towards the bills since he left employment (albeit, at a reduced rate) but these savings are now running out. Jane brings home a reasonable salary, enough to run the household without a contribution although things would be very tight.

Jane feels like she is carrying the load solo and sees this as evidence that what she assumed would be a short term thing is now becoming long term, unilaterally decided by John.

John is hurt by this and sees it as Jane being selfish and unsupportive. He honestly believes that a career change is necessary to protect his mental health and that he would be much better suited to this other career.

YABU - Jane is unreasonable
YANBU - John is unreasonable

OP posts:
Specter123 · 27/03/2022 10:40

Wow, so many messages, thank you everyone.

A bit more of a split overnight and I'm glad people can see this is a difficult situation with many, many different layers.

To answer some questions:

Kids: we don't have any. I don't know whether I definitely want them but we agreed to review at a certain age. That review point would happen while he was off if he goes with another year out of work. I would not have DC with him if the situation was as it is now - read too much MN for that! I've doubled up on contraception.

His plans: he does have some vague plans and intends to create a timetable. His view is that taking a job he doesn't want/like will Get him back to the bad position he was in health-wise when he left this job. And again, I can see this. The issue is that he is focused on just one career path. A part time job is not even on the table at the moment.

Him as a person: I do love him. He's kind, he asks about my day and he tells me I work too hard and how much he loves me. He talks about plans for the future. Listening to his words, I feel very loved. Noticing his actions, I feel taken for granted.

My role: I am struggling. I recognise that couples support one another and I wouldn't leave anyone for being unlucky enough to get ill, regardless of whether it's mental or physical. The way he is now, I don't know that he has the bandwidth to care for others and I'm worried that this could lead to real resentment.

Thanks everyone for their views.

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 27/03/2022 10:40

I voted Jane is unreasonable, because if you love someone, then it is in sickness and in health. I appreciate they are not actually married, but have been together for a reasonable length of time. They are an established couple, and with that, comes responsibility to care for each other. John is ill. Jane is having a hard time, but remember so is John.

The thing is, you go into a relationship as two adults, you make decisions, plan together abd support each other. Where’s his mutual support for Jane, the respect she deserves to be able to plan for her own life and their life together. He’s not consistent with medication - which would support his recovery, he’s not maintaining a reasonable sleep pattern - which would support his recovery, he can see friends and develop hobbies but not carry his own weight with household tasks. In the meantime she works 12 hours a day, cares for an elderly parent, funds his lifestyle and carries the household.

If you want to hold her to the commitment she made in the relationship, he should similarly be held to his commitments. I’m sure many of us have a times when 18 months of not working would have been beneficial to our mental health, but we don’t ask our partner to carry us while we sleep, eat and see our friends.

MaryAndHerNet · 27/03/2022 10:44

Listening to his words, I feel very loved. Noticing his actions, I feel taken for granted.

Listen to the actions, ignore the words.

And... To be BLUNT...

IF he loved you and cared about you.... He wouldn't tell you you work too hard, he'd fucking help...

LottyD32 · 27/03/2022 11:00

Yanbu. John can fuck of and go and cocklodge somewhere else.

WhoWants2Know · 27/03/2022 11:07

I have long term mental health issues (including medication and previous hospitalisation) and last year I reached a point of overwhelming stress at work. I had to quit with no job to go to.

But I didn't have a partner to fall back on. The housework did suffer somewhat. But to keep paying rent, I had to take on non-skilled work while I waited to get in to a job that was good for me. If I hadn't been able to find work that I could do, then I would have had to claim benefits and deal with whatever expectations they placed on me to do that.

The automatic assumption shouldn't be that he does whatever feels nice because he's had a sad time. It's important that he looks at what he would do on his own so that he is still able to maintain an independent identity in his own right. Otherwise he may begin to feel emasculated and and bitter about it.

Mummy1608 · 27/03/2022 11:26

Jane, run and don't feel guilty. You've cared for him for a while already, you've done your bit.

It's possible to be in a happy, loving, balanced relationship with an equal. Or be happily single and able to enjoy the wealth you've earned without having to support a selfish grown man.

I say this as someone with severe MH problems in the family (two close relatives). They destroyed their partners' well being without being happy themselves until finally they're living alone and are actually more stable.

John may actually improve in health and self sufficiency if he lives on his own. You're doing him no favours as his carer, and you suffer yourself. Please, run

billy1966 · 27/03/2022 11:28

@MaryAndHerNet

Listening to his words, I feel very loved. Noticing his actions, I feel taken for granted.

Listen to the actions, ignore the words.

And... To be BLUNT...

IF he loved you and cared about you.... He wouldn't tell you you work too hard, he'd fucking help...

Words are so cheap OP. So unbelievably cheap.

Lookvat his actions.

You are already struggling.

He sees you are struggling and his focus is on his hobbies.

You are caring for an elderly relative and now him.

Is this REALLY all you want for your future?

Because it sounds utterly miserable.

What happens if your mental health becomes an issue?

What if you needed a break from work?

Who would carry you?

John?

Not a chance OP.

If you don't wake up to to the reality of what you are walking into, your future is gone.

He says nice words?

I bet he does.
He's got you working and cleaning for him as he focuses on his hobbies and another 12 months of the same.

You accept this and you will bitterly regret throwing your own life away to be a work horse for him.

Your life has value.
Do not throw it away OP.

He should move home and give you space to think and reflect.

Sell the house or check if you can take the morgage on.

Either way you are going to be paying for everything with him.

This is the time for bravery OP.Flowers

GabriellaMontez · 27/03/2022 11:28

he's always been overly generous, doesn't really worry about money

He sounds very generous with your time, work and money.

He sounds capable and organised in terms of planning another year off, getting new hobbies and a career change. However, he seems unable to perform certain tasks like housework or a low paid job.

He's effectively communicated his plans and what your role is in supporting him and meeting his needs.

Do you ever discuss your needs or desires? Is he grateful and appreciative?

Do you have a partnership or more of a working relationship- one where he's the boss and you're the hard working junior?

You ask if this is temporary. His illness isn't necessarily the issue here. More his attitude to it and to you. Is this the future for you whenever you hit harder times? What will it be next?

Finally. (Some true cliches) Love is a verb. Talk is cheap. Words have to be backed up by actions.

Mummy1608 · 27/03/2022 11:28

Ps you say that he's kind because he asks about your day. Oh Jane, your standards have fallen so far into the abyss. You could be so happy with someone else or even just a female friend housemate/lodger!

Peppapigforlife · 27/03/2022 11:43

I think if he was doing the housework I would let him have his time off but if he can't even TRY to do that, then he is just being selfish and making the most of his gap year.
I think, if he does want to get better and you would like a future with him, then he has to become independent. He needs to find his own place and become independent from you and claim UC for the rent and living costs. I think they will let you have a few months sick time for depression with a doctors note on ESA before they ask him for more committment. If he doesnt have savings he can borrow the deposit from you. Don't be his guarantor. You can get a lodger on the terms that it could only be for a year. Then you will know in a year if he is really going to work on himself and can come and share the home with you again.

RiverSkater · 27/03/2022 11:47

The issue is this situation is not sustainable for Jane. Carrying the burden of house and home and elderly relatives while John pursues his hobbies and zones out.

If he can get up, undertake personal care, make himself breakfast and get out the house, travel to his hobby then he can also put on a wash, the dishwasher, hoover. He can also travel to a job.

He chooses to see the things he doesn't want to do as stressful, but that is life. We all feel like that!

He's choosing to check out of normal life because he has you to pick out he pieces.

This is the new John.

Crimeismymiddlename · 27/03/2022 11:51

I won’t be just a year. Jane will taking up the full load for the length of the marriage, as well as caring responsibilities . John is having a great time, and mental/health conditions don’t excuse anyone from making sure the house is sorted. They are a partnership and it seems that Jane is doing all the supporting with nothing in return.I would also be worried that if he got a John, there would be another falling out with someone and he ‘has’ to leave. I would question if things like this have been happening in the relationship the entire time.

FinallyHere · 27/03/2022 12:49

If he came to you and asked you to help him figure out how to do this, how to cut costs, to make ends meet, to support you both without laying everything at your door- how would you feel about supporting him for a year?

But he didn't do this did he? Instead, he tells you not to worry because the two of you are better off than many.

he makes the good point that I have a good wage and we're in a better position than many others

Pretty breathtaking, his selfishness and self absorption. He seems to be treating you as the parent of an adolescent. Are you perhaps feeling this too. That you might be responsible for him?

Suggest he works out a different plan. Maybe you will support him for x months,, then x months to build himself back then x months of him paying all the bills so you can replenish your buffer savings.

Id he's not up for that, then ...

FinallyHere · 27/03/2022 13:00

its also pretty sad that we've got to this stage.

Just for the record, it's not both of you that have got to this stage, it's him.

I'd go with @Cocomarine approach to work out whether this is a temporary change or a permanent one.

Also, we women are socialised to #bekind The update that his words make you feel loved while his actions make you feel taken for granted really resonate with me.

I wasted much too much of my life supporting men, if I had my time again I'd have ripped off the plaster much sooner.

If you don't want to seem mean, you could suggest that you break up to give him space to recover. Generally, make a counter offer to his demand that he gets a 'free' year off and if isn't happy with it, then you split.

thing47 · 27/03/2022 13:04

He's choosing to check out of normal life because he has you to pick out he pieces. This is the new John

The key question here is whether this is indeed the new John, or whether it's a temporary state. I think to be convinced that it was temporary I would need to see some definite planning by John, and certainly to have some pretty serious conversations about what he can do – and gradually increasing that workload.

Otherwise you do indeed have a new John and you get to decide whether or not that is someone you want to build a life with. @Specter123 if you met John as he now is, loving and caring maybe but not really in work and not taking on other responsibilities around the house, would you still be attracted to him? Or would he give you the ick?

He is being reasonable to look after his mental health, but equally you are being reasonable to decide this new-style relationship isn't really working for you.

Chamomileteaplease · 27/03/2022 13:26

He isn't trying though.

He isn't consistent with his medication. Which is so selfish.

He is making things worse by not sorting his sleeping habits. Selfish.

He is doing no housework while his partner works full time!

Unbelieveably selfish.

He's ill but the usual response to these things, is, is he tackling the issue? No

As others have said, oh but he can handle hobbies and socialising.

I feel for you Jane, this is a truly difficult situation. And sadly, as you have begun to realise, you have become the parent. Not equal and not sexy.

DontLookBackInAnger1 · 27/03/2022 13:30

Working is good for mental health. It's a bad idea for him to be off for so long, he'll struggle to get back into work and I guarantee his mental health will decline.

MzHz · 27/03/2022 13:36

I have some kinds of experience in these things, both when my h looked after me when I lost my job - but I did all the housework and managed projects in the house etc etc and be covered my bills - I felt it was the least I could do.

He’s had issues with anxiety on and off - as have I - getting him back into his routine post pandemic has been critical for him to feel stronger and better, the pandemic bizarrely helped me get over the lingering agoraphobia

Your h is making decisions arbitrarily without any discussion with you.

He’s also doing fuck all to help you but tossing you the odd verbal pat pat on the head

I was going to say to you that you need to lay down the rules and tell him he shapes up or ships out

But then I deleted the paragraph.

If he in anyway felt any sympathy or guilt about dumping all the weight of life on your shoulders, he’d had taken it all on before, without you saying anything

He’d have come to you with a proposal not a fait accompli

You have one shot at this, and it’s lay down the law now or you remortgage and buy him out and end it.

If he can’t handle his career/ life now, imagine if you had kids in the mix.

I think this is the new John and your life is going to get a lot harder until you are able to be cruel to be kind.

felulageller · 27/03/2022 13:36

Don't waste your childbearing years with this man. He's telling you who he is.

Cotherstone · 27/03/2022 13:52

This is so difficult. People get ill and they need support from their loved ones. But there's just something in the way you describe his actions... As someone pointed out upthread, if he seems open to more honest discussions about the effect this has on you, about how you can make this work together as a team, what's going to happen if his retraining doesn't go well or he can't get a job within X months, that's one thing. But it doesn't sound quite like he is, is he?

Specter123 · 27/03/2022 14:26

Thanks everyone - just to clarify, I don't think he's kind because he asks me about my day, I was just answering a question.

I have standards and have ended relationships previously when things haven't been going well. I'm not afraid of being single (tbh, I quite enjoy being single!) but I am trying to be fair and not end a previously very good relationship over something that is a temporary blip that is due to an illness. If this is the new John, then that's a different conversation and I like the idea of testing this out with him verbally before I make any final decisions.

Thank you again for all your thoughts.

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 27/03/2022 15:51

He wouldn't be doing this if he didn't have you to do everything from paying for the roof over his head and the food on the table to doing the washing.

From experience, those couple of months goes to a year to eight years before you know it. And for all of that time, you will be carrying everything without the slightest chance of being able to rely upon him for anything at all, because it'll be 'putting pressure on' or 'bullying' or 'you wouldn't treat me like this if I had cancer'.

And then there's the 'relapse' at the first sign of things not being perfect if he did get a job in the new industry. Slightly too direct boss, bit of concern about missing a deadline? He'll be back off sick saying it's too much for him to bear. Because being at home having somebody else take care of the mental load, the financial load, the housework, shopping, cooking, planning feels safer. Being able to stay up all night and sleep all day without any responsibilities, tasks or reason to change it means he will then be 'too tired' and 'didn't get around to it' for training, applications or anything else. He'll likely take specific steps to deceive, such as setting an alarm for ten minutes before you get from work so he can claim he's been up and busy all day. He'll be too tired or stressed to do any housework. So the place will, unless you do it all whilst he lounges around being delicate, look like a dump. He'll be deficient in vitamin D, his mood will drop further due to this, his energy levels will be through the floor, joint and bone pains, he'll be physically unfit and struggle with such things as sitting upright or walking/leaving the house unless it's something he fancies doing, at which point he'll do that whether you like it or not. And then expect a week in which to recover whilst you slog on making this all possible for him.

Regular work, even parttime, has advantages far beyond money. It means regular sleeping patterns, activity, daylight, thinking and interacting with other people, fresh air, keeping good personal hygiene, looking smart/dressed appropriately. It's a reason to maintain good habits. And it makes the career changer have something useful on their CV rather than look like they were unofficially sacked for incompetence/possibly spent the time in prison/rehab/drinking and lazing round the house.

For his own health, the longer he stays out of working environments, the harder it will be to go back - so he needs to work. Now. Not in the claimed year, as it'll never be just a year. But now. Anything - cleaning, driving, office temping, anything that gets him out of the house and doing stuff that's useful, brings money in and avoids a massive gap on his work history or having no reference for eight years when he finally decides he can't get away without working any longer.

Or you send him back to live with his Mum and claim benefits. Chances are that he'll find something pretty sharpish if he thinks you can't be manipulated anymore, and if it is over, he'll do it then because he hasn't got somebody to parasitise. The prospect of having to claim benefits and comply with jobseeking agreements where if they don't comply, they have no money for food tends to focus the mind somewhat.

You don't have to do this because he demands that you do. Not because he threatens anything terrible or tries to guilt you into compliance. You DO NOT have to carry this weight.

MzHz · 27/03/2022 16:52

@felulageller

Don't waste your childbearing years with this man. He's telling you who he is.
Agree with this too.

Sympathy and bearing with is one thing, sacrificing your future and your health is another

Specter123 · 27/03/2022 21:10

Thank you all - winding up for a conversation tomorrow evening.

Wish me luck!

OP posts:
Norgie · 27/03/2022 22:01

John would be shown the door, quick sharp. Sorry.