Who is being unreasonable? (If anyone!)

[Specter123]

John and Jane have been together for 6ish years. They bought a house together 2 years ago - no DC yet and not married.

John has had a tough time during the pandemic. He started a new job, had a falling out with the manager and left without a job to go to. He has also been diagnosed with a mental health condition during the pandemic and is now medicated but still working out the right dose etc.

Jane has worked throughout the pandemic. She has picked up John's share of the housework while everything has been going on and is now the sole breadwinner. She is also a carer for an elderly parent. She does however work from home pretty much permanently now.

John has now decided he does not see himself back in paid employment for at least another year so he can get himself straight, find new coping mechanisms and pursue a complete career change. He has savings to continue to pay his share for approx another 2 months. He has been paying towards the bills since he left employment (albeit, at a reduced rate) but these savings are now running out. Jane brings home a reasonable salary, enough to run the household without a contribution although things would be very tight.

Jane feels like she is carrying the load solo and sees this as evidence that what she assumed would be a short term thing is now becoming long term, unilaterally decided by John.

John is hurt by this and sees it as Jane being selfish and unsupportive. He honestly believes that a career change is necessary to protect his mental health and that he would be much better suited to this other career.

YABU - Jane is unreasonable
YANBU - John is unreasonable

Will the new career involve routine tasks? Do his hobbies and getting out and about meeting people involve less tasks than loading the washing machine and running a vacuum around?

@Justmuddlingalong

Will the new career involve routine tasks? Do his hobbies and getting out and about meeting people involve less tasks than loading the washing machine and running a vacuum around?

This is what I'm struggling with

What sort of career field is he hoping to get into, roughly? Is it something that will be easy to get into or is it all pie in the sky?

And he's looking at the future through rose tinted specs? I think his plans are hopes tbh. It's good that he's looking forward but I'd be afraid that the year to sort himself out will be extended.

He wants to go into something similar to a branch of HR.

Not impossible, he's a smart guy with a good degree and a solid career up until the pandemic. But a career change to an area he has no experience in is always a challenge

John sounds lazy and avoidant. I am worried that after a further year of this he will have his head stuck even further in the sand and all you’ll get is an arse.

@Justmuddlingalong

And he's looking at the future through rose tinted specs? I think his plans are hopes tbh. It's good that he's looking forward but I'd be afraid that the year to sort himself out will be extended.

This is my fear. And the longer it drags out, the more stressful its going to be for him.

He's been off for nearly 5 months so far.

What’s John planning to live on for the next year? While I’d want to be supportive, someone telling me I’d be supporting them for the next year would be a flat “no” I’m afraid. You might be in a better position than most at the moment but what about when John runs out of funds, you need to reduce hours for caring responsibilities etc. It’s purely due to your relationship he can even contemplate such a thing - what wouid his plans be if he lived alone, would he still have the urgent need for a year off work?

The other bit with the time off is that I'm worried that the longer you're out of work, the harder it is to get back into it. Headspace-wise, CV-wise etc.

So if he has no experience in the field, how can he know it will be suitable for him in regards to stress?

He sounds like he’s quite happy to kick the can down the road, but with no guarantee of even wanting to do the job once he’s a year down the road, never mind the problem of actually achieving it!

For me, the deal breaker is that anything other than you supporting him, doing the housework and caring for your relative with no discussion or room for negotiation is acceptable to him.
No mental health issue in the world makes that acceptable

@Jellycatspyjamas

What’s John planning to live on for the next year? While I’d want to be supportive, someone telling me I’d be supporting them for the next year would be a flat “no” I’m afraid. You might be in a better position than most at the moment but what about when John runs out of funds, you need to reduce hours for caring responsibilities etc. It’s purely due to your relationship he can even contemplate such a thing - what wouid his plans be if he lived alone, would he still have the urgent need for a year off work?

I don't like that my options are being restricted by his decisions that I have no influence over.

But equally, he didn't choose to be ill or to be not well suited to his career path.

If John struggles with the mental load of routine household tasks, HR is not a good choice.

It's also not a good choice for someone who needs a low-stress role.

There's a fair bit of 'routine' in it, although the routine stuff is quite complex, but there's also an unavoidably large part of it that's either dealing with people having a shit time or dealing with people being shit. Neither is low-stress, and both need adaptability, excellent problem solving and social skills and good resilience.

Whatever he's seeking to do, John needs to take over housework - and learn to manage it - and he needs to look at how he can contribute. It simply isn't on for him to decide he's doing nothing for over a year. You aren't his support-human

Its amazing that John has only suffered from all of this after buying a house with Jane that Jane is now paying for.

I wouldn't trust John to effect his career change in a year's time now that he has got his feet under the table. Or more accurately, has his feet up resting on the table while Jane does all the work.

John is a lazy so-and-so and needs kicked out, at which point I suspect he will suddenly manage to work and find a new victim to pull in.

John is a selfish, lazy cocklodger and Jane needs to wise up and get rid of him.

No he didn’t choose that, but he’s relying on you to cover him when there’s no obligation for you to do so. What would he do if you weren’t there - ie how much time is necessary and how much is his preference? You’re not married and 6 years in the grand scheme of things isn’t that long a relationship to be fully reliant on someone else with no clear sense of how he’ll contribute to easing the burdens on you any.

I know those aren't his choices, but the not picking up any slack around the house while you're out earning is a choice. He's picking and choosing the things he wants to do, expecting you to accept that. And the calling you selfish and unsupportive if you pull him up on his lack of help, I'd struggle to put up with that.

The whole situation feels like a complete 180 and I recognise he is coming across a bit grabby here. But when we met, he was ambitious, driven and was employed in a very good job.

Being cynical, the real John is the one who is present now, not the ideal image he presented you with to draw you in.

Have there been any other incidencies of behaviour that have concerned you before?

I struggle with routine tasks too, I'm slow and have had to find ways to manage the stress and take the pressure off myself while still doing enough to keep things ticking over. I'm a long way from a domestic goddess but thankfully neither of us has particularly high standards and I think (hope!) it's obvious to DH that I'm doing my best.

I have to say I'm not getting the impression from your posts that John is putting much effort into operating as any kind of team with you OP and that would worry me in your position. Mental illness does, by necessity at times, make you selfish/self absorbed but that can't be to the extent of riding roughshod over the people who love and support you and doesn't rob you of all capacity to care about the effect your illness has on their lives.

How did it get a degree of he struggles so much with routine tasks that it takes him 10c longer to do anything?

Can he drive a car?
Use a computer?
Go to play golf at a set time?
Meet friends at set times?

Sorry, sounds mean, he's taking the piss.
He's had 5 months off, you've cleaned around him and probably given him empathy and head pats.
Part of of him doesn't want this easy life to end, the mental health issues can be worked on during employment, the future faking is pie in the sky to keep you happy.

I've seen it to many times to count.
Man develops depression / stress / anxiety or some such.
Conveniently the illness means doing hobbies and nice things are good but doing housework is just too much. Can't get out of bed on days when there's no hobbies planned.
The there's the grand plans of what to do.. buy a van, be a gardener, get a degree, be an artist, a screen writer etc etc. Something ethereal that takes up swathes of time... Conveniently though, that time is spent at home and on a computer etc.
Man ends up life of Riley, meanwhile the woman supporting him, guilted onto bot questioning it, she ends up resentful, the mental load is too.much, if there is kids, she has to care for them. The man is just too I'll to even clean out the gerbil, he's fine to go fishing with his buddy though.

Years go by... Woman looks back on a life spent supporting a home.. and a man that may as well have stayed living with mummy...

And if any of that sounds even remotely recognisable... Run like fuck.

@SucculentChalice

The whole situation feels like a complete 180 and I recognise he is coming across a bit grabby here. But when we met, he was ambitious, driven and was employed in a very good job.

Being cynical, the real John is the one who is present now, not the ideal image he presented you with to draw you in.

Have there been any other incidencies of behaviour that have concerned you before?

None at all. We match on politics, religion, approach to family. We had similar ambitions and have lived together for 4 years with no real housework issues.

The only one issue I guess was around money. I'm quite independent - worked since young, protective of savings etc. He's always had a slightly different attitude to money - he's always been overly generous, doesn't really worry about money even in normal times and isn't one for financial planning.

He's always been employed though. He's moved through 2 promotions while we've been together

It's an interesting situation, I've been in similar. My partner was in a stressful job without enough support, suffered a breakdown, ongoing depression & PTSD. He, however, is a 'doer', and although he found himself a 'low stress' part time job, has to constantly police himself not to do too much, as he now has permanent physical issues as well.
He does slightly more of the housework than me, and I know that asking him to do more leads to worse outcomes in the end: once he ended up hospitalised through trying to do too much.
It's been a hard readjustment for both of us, especially when other stresses cropped up (family illnesses, deaths etc) as I have had to do the majority of the coping/ work involved, but I honestly know he's trying his best.
I think you both need to sit down & have an honest talk about expectations, and set some clear boundaries & timelines you're both comfortable with (gives you time to get your personal & legal ducks lined up, in case!)

You’re saying he’s now officially neuro diverse, but presumably always has been, just that he’s now got a diagnosis? So he’s managed a career, and two promotions, while having whatever condition he’s now been diagnosed with and now he needs to take a huge amount of time out of work? I can’t believe that’s his only option here.

I also wonder what happens at the end of that year - when he can’t then get into his new career? You’re already suffering the effects of stress, where are your health needs being considered in the scheme of things?

I don't think either of you are BU, but you need to talk to each other find a way to make it work.

5 months is not that long to get your head together and change career in John's situation but he should be making solid efforts to move forward in that area, and taking on more of the domestic load. Ideally making a plan of action as to how his career change will progress and realising that it may take longer than he thinks.

Would he consider taking a part-time, unstressful job or temping at some point in the interim? This would give him some recent experience in the workforce and also allow him time for self care and retraining.

Look. John and Jane are two adults and this is supposed to be a partnership. It’s worrying that it sounds like John has just decided Jane has to take care of it all for the duration. That’s not how you treat an equal. Jane’s health problems are probably too stressful for John to hear about? That’s not how someone faces what is important in their own life or that of someone close to them. Suppose John was sharing a house with a mate. What would he do? Why is it different if you have a wife?

he makes the good point that I have a good wage and we're in a better position than many others.

Well that's lucky for him isn't it? It's not a good point. What if you weren't? Or what happens if/when you reach breaking point?