Who is being unreasonable? (If anyone!)

[Specter123]

John and Jane have been together for 6ish years. They bought a house together 2 years ago - no DC yet and not married.

John has had a tough time during the pandemic. He started a new job, had a falling out with the manager and left without a job to go to. He has also been diagnosed with a mental health condition during the pandemic and is now medicated but still working out the right dose etc.

Jane has worked throughout the pandemic. She has picked up John's share of the housework while everything has been going on and is now the sole breadwinner. She is also a carer for an elderly parent. She does however work from home pretty much permanently now.

John has now decided he does not see himself back in paid employment for at least another year so he can get himself straight, find new coping mechanisms and pursue a complete career change. He has savings to continue to pay his share for approx another 2 months. He has been paying towards the bills since he left employment (albeit, at a reduced rate) but these savings are now running out. Jane brings home a reasonable salary, enough to run the household without a contribution although things would be very tight.

Jane feels like she is carrying the load solo and sees this as evidence that what she assumed would be a short term thing is now becoming long term, unilaterally decided by John.

John is hurt by this and sees it as Jane being selfish and unsupportive. He honestly believes that a career change is necessary to protect his mental health and that he would be much better suited to this other career.

YABU - Jane is unreasonable
YANBU - John is unreasonable

I can tell you from experience he won't sort his sleep pattern until he's forced to by work or other essential commitments and he's on a hiding to nothing if he's trying to sort it independently so don't let him use that as another delaying factor. Sticking to a set routine is really hard if you don't actually have to get up for something (disturbed sleep or not) so he's setting himself up to fail if he thinks sorting his sleep takes precedence over getting back to work, it's work that will fix his sleep pattern.

It sounds to me as though he's actively avoiding 'real life', filling his days and planning his future around anything which avoids actually having to start participating in the shitwork of life again. I recognise that because I did it myself for a while, I also have some sympathy for him if, like me, it's sheer terror that he's not capable of being a functioning, useful human being that's driving his behaviour rather than laziness/cocklodger tendencies. I realised fairly quickly that I needed to make myself useful in the ways I could manage rather than making endless plans and preparations for something that actually, I wasn't even ready to think about.

I am starting to think I might be able to work again at some point, it feels possible now where it didn't for a long time. Being responsible for the house stuff is helping I think, I have a routine now, get up at a decent time every day and get stuff done, I would feel I was letting DH/myself/the team down if I didn't do it and I feel like I'm achieving something which is proving to me that I'm not completely useless!

Ultimately John is expending lots of mental and physical energy on something he doesn't plan to change for a year rather than focusing on what he can do now. Recovering his mental health is essentially about learning to do/cope with life again and running and maintaining your home is part and parcel of that, I can't see how avoiding the realities of life for the next year is going to help him.

Has John at least investigated sickness/disability benefits to help the financial side or has he abdicated everything?

I voted Jane is unreasonable, because if you love someone, then it is in sickness and in health. I appreciate they are not actually married, but have been together for a reasonable length of time. They are an established couple, and with that, comes responsibility to care for each other. John is ill. Jane is having a hard time, but remember so is John.

Money becomes very, very important as you get older. You working and supporting him limits your life choices severely. What if you're stressed too? What if you become ill tomorrow? Why is he not giving more weight to how this affects you? This is all about HIM and HIS needs. Where are YOU in his priorities? Nowhere. He's being very selfish. Part of being an adult means you have to do things you don't like and even make you ill until you figure out something else. You don't get to sleep all day and take 3 years to decide while spending someone else's money. You work hard- how will you feel at the end of the year once he's used you and left you? Because he will. The resentment will build, you'll start to argue more and more, and he'll cut his losses and walk out once his new career is sorted and he's back on his feet.

@Changethetoner

I voted Jane is unreasonable, because if you love someone, then it is in sickness and in health. I appreciate they are not actually married, but have been together for a reasonable length of time. They are an established couple, and with that, comes responsibility to care for each other. John is ill. Jane is having a hard time, but remember so is John.

My dad had a nervous breakdown when I was a teen and there was a point in his recovery when he couldn’t have put a load of washing on - the household task mentioned by OP.

So I’m not unsympathetic to the idea that sometimes, it’s impossible.

But John has now reached the point of sorting out his hobbies.

I’d say the responsibility lies with John now, not Jane, to stop taking the piss.

@Specter123

Sorry to hear of your struggles *@JesusSufferingFuck22*

John is seeking a similar arrangement I believe. Can I ask, do you have support at home?

I suspect jesussuffering is not taking up new hobbies and exercising. The cancer comparison would have tipped me over, because the people I know wiht cancer were not doing these things either as they were in too much pain, absolutely exhausted, wracked with nausea etc. nonetheless those who weren’t completely incapacitated like my relative recovering from leukaemia who lived alone maintained a tidy neat home, planned ahead to have suitable meals on hand for the post chemo weeks when she couldn’t manage cooking and food was hard to keep down. So I’d be massively fucked off at the cancer comparison. I’d say I can’t tolerate this for a year, I need your ability to support us to step up at the same rate as your energies to support you to make fun friends and have hobbies and get fit. I’m not staying home cleaning nights to fit it in with my stressful job which pays for everything so you can focus on you 24 hours a day, there’s no partnership there.

John is opting out of being an adult. Housework and work suck. They're awful. They're boring. Unfortunately they're a necessary part of being an adult.

I think you need an honest conversation. You want to be in an equal relationship where responsibilities are shared. You do not want to be a pseudo parent - providing the money, the house, the security; while he spends his day acting like a teenager, sleeping all day and socialising with his friends. Unfortunately, if that's the role he is expecting you to take, then the relationship is not for you. He is financially responsible for himself and his choices. You're not responsible for his life. You've been supportive for 5 months. Now he wants to continue for another year. It doesn't work for you.

Do you want to compromise? Could you give it 3 months and then if no change you're done? I'd be inclined to end it sooner rather than later, but then I've had a cocklodger before and really have no tolerance for them now.

What would his plan be if you weren't in the picture? He'd have to pull his socks up...!

John is being massively entitled and that is the problem.

I suspect if he had genuinely expressed concerns or guilt about the impact on you your response would be very different.

I had a mahoosive breakdown and have had to support myself through it all. John is very much taking the piss. And it won’t stop after a year.

Do you want kids? He is not the man to have kids with and that may make it easier for you in terms of moving on.

I know someone who married very young and had 2 children quickly. Her DH fell out with 3 bosses and now has not worked for about 6 years with severe depression. She has to get up, get the kids ready, drive them to her mums 30 mins away. Gran does school run and pick up while mum works full time, mum picks up kids, drives them home, gets tea ready then gets them bathed and bedded then tidies up, sorts washing/school bags. She has no social life outside her children. He admittedly is severely depressed and has tried combinations of medications but spends his days arguing with people online, smoking weed with his friends and playing computer games. He went on holiday recently to Amsterdam too.

I like to think that in that situation I would have the strength to call out DH or leave or whatever but I guess its complex when she loves him and fully believes that when he gets the right combo of meds he will work and help with the children again.

I just feel like there are ways to support him other than being financially tied to him or cleaning up after him. Do you still feel the same way and want to be in a relationship with him? Do you want to marry him or have children with him knowing how things are now? If after a year things are still the way they are how would you feel abiut your relationship? Surely if he is accessing therapy/support online he is receiving encouragement to manage his new diagnosis as part of his life and responsibilities?

If he can manage to exercise and do hobbies, he's capable of housework. It's not at all like cancer where he might have severe physical symptoms or feel ill from chemo or radiotherapy.

If he struggles with knowing what to do, he can look at the Organised Mum (it's not just for mums) and follow that. It says 30 minutes a day, but I think that's a bit ambitious and more of a suggested upper limit for those who are at risk of spending all day cleaning.

An hour a day should be more than enough with no DC and he should also be cooking the main meal, shopping, gardening etc. Plus he needs to be getting off his arse and getting another job.

@Specter123

John says he wants to contribute more to the house and hopes having this time out of employment would help give him the space to get on top of his health in order to be able to do it.

John says Jane would feel differently if he'd be diagnosed with something physical like cancer and this attitude is actually discriminatory towards mental health problems.

I agree, I'm afraid.

The cancer thing is a complete red herring. It won't be the same for everyone, but my husband had cancer for at least 7 years and worked 98% of the time in those years.

Your partner is being emotionally manipulative and it's not fair. If he's not doing paid work then he will have to get off his backside and do the housework.

A family member had severe mental health problems, so I understand what it's like to some extent. I personally think that it is perfectly OK to walk away from this situation. It's incredibly hard to live with, you aren't married and don't have children. I think I might leave.

@Specter123

He is reading about his newly diagnosed medical condition, exercising, picking up new hobbies that encourage him to get out the house and to meet new people etc.

He has been ill and this is improving his health, visibly. He's putting weight back on after losing a significant amount, is happier and calmer.

You know what’s good exercise? Housework. You know what gets you out of the house meeting people? Looking for a job.

He’s having a very nice life at your expense, isn’t he?

@Specter123

The other bit with the time off is that I'm worried that the longer you're out of work, the harder it is to get back into it. Headspace-wise, CV-wise etc.

I really sympathise, I'd been with DH 10 years when he was diagnosed with a MH condition. I'll be honest, looking back, I was FAR too easy on him (I did everything - worked, housework, life admin, while I waited for him to 'get better') and this hampered his recovery and didn't develop his coping skills.

If John has already had 5 months off, more time is not going to help. How would he react if you suggested that he work part time, in a role he can get now, while he works on this new career path? He also needs to take on some housework responsibility.

It's concerning that he's guilt tripping you; my DH never did that; every day even at his worst he'd still be kind, supportive, loving to me and decisions are taken together.

I think you're right to be worried about this - I'm not saying leave him, but please don't sacrifice yourself. The resentment will build and build and eat you up, you deserve to be in a mutually supportive relationship and John having a MH condition doesn't mean he can't be supportive.

I have terrible insomnia, although not medicated and I don't sleep at a during the day I have things that need doing and sleeping would mean perpetuating an unhelpful sleep pattern.

What do you mean about inconsistent with his medication? Not taking it when he should? Sod that. He can't expect you to sacrifice so much if he can't even get that right.

I had a boyfriend for 6 years in my early twenties. He suffered from depression and MH. I split up with him over it.

My life became a drudgery of working hard to pay bills and run the house whilst he picked and chose what he did with his day. He always had energy for his hobbies and never had energy for things that had to be done. He spent his money on himself and was always short for bills.

Rightly, or wrongly, that wasn’t the life I wanted. I did feel guilty because I felt I should shoulder the burden of his MH (in sickness and all that) but it was making my life completely miserable.

You have to look after yourself op because your partner isn’t doing anything to look after you.

I see you issue with not wanting to bail on him when he’s already being pummeled by the lost job and MH problems. I guess what I’d wonder is - to what extent does he see you as a partner and to what extent is he just using you because your there? He doesn’t work or do any housework but if we assume that the reasons he’s provided for that are valid, there’s still a huge amount of other stuff in a relationship where he could be an equal partner. Does he ask you about your day? Commiserate with you? Celebrate success? Discuss the future in a way that acknowledges you might have goals? Suggest days out together that you might like? Go out of his way to please you in bed? Maintain an interest in anything about your life?

I guess I’m asking, does he do anything to support you in any way? Or is his whole life entirely revolving around him and his issues, with you on the periphery being the helpmeet?

I think it’s pretty shocking that he has assumed you’ll be okay with his plan. That he hasn’t acknowledged at all what a huge ask it is of you, or even, it seems, realised how much you’ve supported him so far. I could, as others have said, imagine that someone who’s gone through a breakdown could want what he’s suggesting and ask for it. But he just seems to have taken you for granted. And isn’t interested in the toll it might be taking on you or in minimising the extra load you have to carry. So I’m wondering how much he really sees you at all.

And, unless this is just a few weeks into things (which it doesn’t sound like from how you write) if he doesn’t see you I don’t think you are obliged to stay with him or support him through this.

I have a diagnosed mental illness (OCD) and it got to a point where it was severe effecting even by ability to eat. I still managed to do all the cooking, cleaning and look after my sen child. My ocd has improved alot due to me putting in the hard work of CBT/ ERP. John is being a lazy bas using mental health as an excuse. On his way to becoming a cocklodger.

Neither is BU really, this is a test of the relationship more than anything. I’m not sure this couple are a true partnership (yet?)

Sounds like Jane begrudges John the expense of turning around his mental health and career. In a committed married couple, ‘in sickness and in health’ etc, partners often make sacrifices for each other and support each other through tough times - for example, when a woman has a baby the husband often becomes sole breadwinner while she takes time off to recover from the birth and care for the newborn. Likewise if one of the couple gets ill or disabled, the other would take on a caring role. It’s not really about fairness, it’s about recognising each other’s capacity to contribute in different ways and adjusting roles accordingly. And if it’s not fair, they don’t mind because they love the other person enough to put them before everything else, and want to stay with them and support them anyway.

I think this is a good opportunity for Jane to really examine her feelings about John. Now that the going is tough, just how much is she willing to sacrifice and would he do the same for her if/when the situation is reversed?

John

Do you still feel like his partner or his carer? I get that you feel a responsibility for him being together 6 years but what are you getting out of the relationship?

There are indications of him being emotionally manipulative. I'd think really long and hard about whether you feel there's enough there left of the relationship to stick at it or end it now.

It sounds like he's not the person you got together with and he might never come back.

Im sorry Jane housework and simple tasks take him ages and he gets stressed about that, he seems to use stress as an excuse not to do anything and I bet you treat him with kid gloves so he dosent get stressed. If he is as bad as you say he should be getting more help than just medication.
I think you should think really hard about if you want to continue like this. I think he is taking advantage of you dont let him do this to you be strong and tell him No.!

I had a breakdown 5 years ago and as a result lost my job. Dh was very supportive and we agreed I would be a sahm until dd started school. Obviously I was raising dd , I did majority of the housework, the mental load but I also had time to do yoga, attend counselling, meditation. When dd went to school I got a part time job and started contributing again.

So I can see how hard it is for your dh but I can also see your side. Could dh work part time to contribute but still have time for self and to retrain? This would also get him into work mode again.

It's a gamble you could support him and he could come good in a years time but equally he may just get use to this situation and going out to work may feel harder the longer he avoids it. It's not fair of him to expect you to support him long term.