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AIBU?

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Original poster

Talking about abortion in a work 'womans day' call

292 replies

RedSquirrel111 · 18/03/2022 21:34

On international woman's day we had a teams call to discuss what it's like being a woman working in our industry. Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom....
I mentioned how nearly 20 years ago I had an abortion, how it was viewed and discussed, and how I had to take unpaid leave for it. Its a very uncomfortable thing for me to talk about (due to the way people view abortion, not my experience). But I was determined to do so as think it's quite taboo. Lots of people support the right to chose theoretically, but I don't see many women discussing their experiences. I thought International womans day would be the perfect chance to do that.
I've had a 'kind chat to say it was inappropriate to bring up on the call. Reading between the lines I think it was because I said I never regretted my decision but I regretted the way my (past) employer treated me. I also, and will say I have no evidence for this, but get a feeling from reactions on the call that it was one of my male colleagues that raised it.
I get it's controversial, but it shouldn't be and that was my point in raising it. I also felt that given the context of the teams was 'women in my industry ' it wasn't out of context?
I'm torn between now feeling a bit ashamed and a bit fuck you....

OP posts:
RosiePosieDozy · 18/03/2022 21:37

That's awful. I wouldn't be able to bring something up like this. You're very brave to have spoken about this. Whoever complained is unreasonable IMO. It's a sensitive subject and someone taking about their experience should be listened to, not complained about. You should complain about them being so insensitive and unfeeling.

MintJulia · 18/03/2022 21:43

It is a difficult one. Abortion has been legal in the UK for nearly 60 years, most people believe in a woman's right to chose (I hope) and yet it is seldom discussed publicly and even less so at work.

I class it with politics and religion. All perfectly legal but everyone has their own view, and discussions tend to lead to arguments, so best not discussed where you want to maintain cordial working relations.

lottiegarbanzo · 18/03/2022 21:43

Your discussion was about what it's like being a woman in your industry. Not how some people feel women ought to behave, in your industry.

parietal · 18/03/2022 21:45

not unreasonable to bring it up. no one needs to debate the morality of the issue, they need to consider how a woman can get appropriate time off for a necessary medical procedure.

lottiegarbanzo · 18/03/2022 21:48

So your subject was how your workplace treated you, when a thing that happens in a lot of women's lives, happened.

Whether or not abortion was the right or only choice, the ethics of abortion, was irrelevant, as not the subject under discussion.

It could only become relevant if your employer takes a particular ethical view and actively enforces that e.g. I imagine that could be the case if you worked for the Catholic church.

Original poster
RedSquirrel111 · 18/03/2022 21:48

@MintJulia

It is a difficult one. Abortion has been legal in the UK for nearly 60 years, most people believe in a woman's right to chose (I hope) and yet it is seldom discussed publicly and even less so at work.

I class it with politics and religion. All perfectly legal but everyone has their own view, and discussions tend to lead to arguments, so best not discussed where you want to maintain cordial working relations.

If its directly related to women's experience in the work place, and that is the topic of the meeting, why shouldn't religion and politics be discussed? Both are very relevant to our experiences
OP posts:
ClariceQuiff · 18/03/2022 21:51

Could it perhaps have been triggering for some of the participants on the call? I can think of various reasons why it might have been - women who have had an abortion and regretted it or found it traumatic; possibly those who have lost a baby or suffered infertility. I don't mean that abortion shouldn't be discussed, but it's perhaps not something that should be introduced into a general women-focused call without a trigger warning.

lottiegarbanzo · 18/03/2022 21:53

Were I you, I'd be seeking clarification on exactly how it was regarded, by your employer, as inappropriate.

If it isn't, then they shouldn't have been passing on gossip, or re-enforcing the discriminatory behaviour you'd experienced at the time.

SarahAndQuack · 18/03/2022 21:53

I think you did a hugely important thing, and I'm so sorry that this was the response. I think you'd be well within your rights to offer feedback that you'd been invited to participate in a discussion intended to benefit other women, and you'd done so despite it being quite hard for you personally, and you're disappointed to then be told it wasn't wanted after all.

Whatsmyname100 · 18/03/2022 21:54

@ClariceQuiff

Could it perhaps have been triggering for some of the participants on the call? I can think of various reasons why it might have been - women who have had an abortion and regretted it or found it traumatic; possibly those who have lost a baby or suffered infertility. I don't mean that abortion shouldn't be discussed, but it's perhaps not something that should be introduced into a general women-focused call without a trigger warning.
I agree with this. You were very brave to speak about this, but maybe it was just too triggering for someone. What were the responses like when you brought it up from your colleagues?
Strictlyfanoftenyears · 18/03/2022 21:56

i think that I would have been very uncomfortable with you bringing that up in a works discussion. But its a personal thing I guess.

DuckyNoMates · 18/03/2022 21:58

I agree I would have expected warning it was going to be discussed before I attended.

lottiegarbanzo · 18/03/2022 21:58

Would one be permitted to discuss miscarriage? Again, something that affects many working women.

Again something that might possibly upset someone who has suffered infertility, or experienced miscarriage themselves.

Likewise, any discussion of pregnancy, maternity leave and being a working mother.

But if women cannot discuss the impacts of female physical experiences and others' reactions to them, in a discussion about what it's like being a woman in your industry, then what can you talk about?

Unsureaboutit9 · 18/03/2022 22:00

I don’t no why you assume it was a man, it’s more likely to be triggering for a woman. Not unreasonable to bring it up but it’s also not unreasonable that some women who’ve been through it don’t want to discuss it.

Original poster
RedSquirrel111 · 18/03/2022 22:02

It was a reasonably small group (as there aren't many women!). On the call there was a bit of a silence, then it was discussed. The only person who didn't respond 'positively' (I say that as joined in the discussion) was one of the 2 men in the call.
It's not been raised formally, just my direct manager (who wasn't on the call) pulled me aside to say he'd had a comment that it wasn't an appropriate thing to discuss in a work environment

OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 18/03/2022 22:03

It doesn't sound like anyone else was forced to discuss it. OP gave her account of her experience. Others will have given their own accounts of their own experiences of whatever they deemed relevant. I don't imagine anyone was forced to respond specifically to anyone else's account.

dfendyr · 18/03/2022 22:04

Its a tough one, and I dont know how i feel if i am completely honest

Talking about your experience 20 years ago, do you feel things have changed at all? Is that why you talked about it?

I dont really agree a trigger warning was warranted, but I'm saying that from the view of never having needed/had an abortion.

You talked about how you felt at work at the time, and how it affected you as a woman, so I dont think you should have been reprimanded (which is what a kind chat is )

SarahAndQuack · 18/03/2022 22:04

But surely, if the OP's work had thought things through, this conversation would have been advertised with a warning there might be topics of a sensitive nature discussed?

Otherwise what is the point? 'Hi ladies, I want you to talk about what it's like being a woman in our industry ... oh, but do remember! Nothing to do with being a person with a reproductive system, or any sad stuff!'

What good would that do?

dfendyr · 18/03/2022 22:04

@DuckyNoMates

I agree I would have expected warning it was going to be discussed before I attended.
but from what I can see, the OP didnt plan? I could be reading it wrong
Luredbyapomegranate · 18/03/2022 22:09

I think abortion needs to be talked about much more. It’s a common experience, but swept under the carpet, and often over dramatised (IMO).

However I would have been surprised if it came up in a work discussion. I can see time off is relevant, but I would not have thought anyone would need to discuss it with an employer, rather than just say they were having a relatively minor op and needed to take x days off.

I don’t think you were unreasonable to bring it up, but equally it’s not unreasonable for someone who might have had a similar but distressing experience to be a bit put out, as it wouldn’t have been expected.

Original poster
RedSquirrel111 · 18/03/2022 22:17

Sorry, can't seem to quote
It was a general 'talk about our experiences as a woman'. Things that were brought up included not being allowed to wear trousers (90's!) But also how being a mother changes your career.
As a good chunk of the meeting was (rightly) about pregnancy and parenthood, I didn't think that talking of my work experience of abortion was much different. Its still a uniquely female experience that impacted my work life

OP posts:
Candleabra · 18/03/2022 22:17

I think you were brave to talk about it.

I see this a lot at work with the oh so many special days and weeks: international womens day, lgbt+ week, speak out against racism, mental health awareness week… loads more Big online meetings or forums where you’re encouraged to be honest about difficult things, then feel afterwards you’ve overshared.

Fundamentally the problem is still that women are looked upon as weak for sharing such stories, whilst men are thought of as strong for doing so. And censored/praised accordingly.

1000yellowdaisies · 18/03/2022 22:18

I think thats really inappropriate and I don't think you should have bought it up at all.
I had an abortion when i was 18. Im now late 30s, married with 2 small children.
There's about 2 people who know about it and my husband doesn't.

I don't feel ashamed but I've never felt the need to discuss what is first and foremost a medical procedure.
You planned this regardless of whether or not it was appropriate based on you saying you were 'determined to do so'.

It feels like youve used something that you and me and thousands of other women have been through to try and be controversial and break what you feel is a taboo... women can access abortions freely and easily in this country so who says its taboo?
So much else to talk about on international womens day...
All you probably did was make people feel uncomfortable.

Kite22 · 18/03/2022 22:29

I don't think it was the time or the place, either.
I agree with 1000yellowdaisies

WomanStanleyWoman · 18/03/2022 22:30

Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom....

This seems needlessly dismissive. Can no one Caucasian attend a call or presentation about Black History Month? No straight people involved in Pride Month? I thought we were meant to encourage people to learn.

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