Talking about abortion in a work 'womans day' call

[RedSquirrel111]

On international woman's day we had a teams call to discuss what it's like being a woman working in our industry. Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom....
I mentioned how nearly 20 years ago I had an abortion, how it was viewed and discussed, and how I had to take unpaid leave for it. Its a very uncomfortable thing for me to talk about (due to the way people view abortion, not my experience). But I was determined to do so as think it's quite taboo. Lots of people support the right to chose theoretically, but I don't see many women discussing their experiences. I thought International womans day would be the perfect chance to do that.
I've had a 'kind chat to say it was inappropriate to bring up on the call. Reading between the lines I think it was because I said I never regretted my decision but I regretted the way my (past) employer treated me. I also, and will say I have no evidence for this, but get a feeling from reactions on the call that it was one of my male colleagues that raised it.
I get it's controversial, but it shouldn't be and that was my point in raising it. I also felt that given the context of the teams was 'women in my industry ' it wasn't out of context?
I'm torn between now feeling a bit ashamed and a bit fuck you....

@Thatswhyimacat

I'd feel incredibly uncomfortable hearing this and I know others who, shortly after having an abortion, would be incredibly upset to hear that conversation. I don't know if that overrides your need to talk about it but I come down on the side that it does - I believe the needs of someone who may be recently upset about an abortion or find the topic upsetting should be prioritised over a discussion of an abortion 20 years ago, especially at work where you wouldn't expect it to come up.

The same goes for pregnancy, miscarriage, childbirth, being a parent. All of which form intrinsic parts of many women's experiences during the workforce. So do we just not talk about any of it in case it upsets someone?

@RedSquirrel111

It was a reasonably small group (as there aren't many women!). On the call there was a bit of a silence, then it was discussed. The only person who didn't respond 'positively' (I say that as joined in the discussion) was one of the 2 men in the call. It's not been raised formally, just my direct manager (who wasn't on the call) pulled me aside to say he'd had a comment that it wasn't an appropriate thing to discuss in a work environment

'He' had received a complaint. That says it all. Poor little menz and their hurty important feelings.

OP you are definitely not U. We have a 'menopause champion' at work. I appreciate it's not exactly the same thing but it's still something that is taboo and shouldn't be.

@Blossomtoes

You can see from this thread just how stigmatised this medical procedure still is

You can see from this thread just how traumatised some women who have had this medical procedure still are. Yet your need to talk openly about it somehow overrides that.

And you feel the same way about miscarriage, pregnancy, child birth and parenting too right? No one should talk about that either?

No one is saying people shouldn’t talk about this stuff. I think it should be talked about much more. But have some common sense about it and allow women who don’t wish to take part to opt out without compromising their privacy.

And you feel the same way about miscarriage, pregnancy, child birth and parenting too right? No one should talk about that either?

I feel the same about miscarriage. And I feel the same about stillbirth - also rarely discussed because anyone with a modicum of sensitivity would recognise what a devastating experience it is.

Disclosing such personal information in a professional setting could well have made people feel very uncomfortable. I can see why somebody could think it wasn't appropriate. There are support groups dealing with people who suffer trauma because of an abortion.

Women with fertility issues are so often triggered by pregnancy, I see threads all the time on here about it, especially regarding pregnant coworkers. But surely pregnancy isn't inappropriate to bring up in such a discussion? What about if OP mentioned being sexually harassed in the workplace and not having her complaint taken seriously, losing out on promotion opportunity etc? Is that inappropriate too? It's not like OP would be detailing how the harassment took place, same as how I am sure OP didn't describe the abortion itself, she was merely explaining how it disadvantaged her in the workplace.

If we can't talk about the shit we as women face lest it be triggering to someone, then how on earth are we ever meant to resolve these issues? The fact that abortion has got such a strong response on here just says it all really, like it's shameful or some dirty secret.

Unfortunately if we as women want to see progression, then yes we must have some uncomfortable conversations. Being a woman brings about many uncomfortable experiences after all, let's not pretend otherwise.

No one is saying people shouldn’t talk about this stuff. I think it should be talked about much more. But have some common sense about it and allow women who don’t wish to take part to opt out without compromising their privacy. Were women prohibited from turning down the volume on the call if they didn't want to hear it? It's not like it was an in-person meeting where you would have physically noticed someone leave the room.

Were women prohibited from turning down the volume on the call if they didn't want to hear it?

The damage would have been done by then.

I'm infertile and would not want to listen to this at all. I support access to abortions. I just do not want to hear about it, especially from someone who thinks the subject is needlessly taboo and needs to be normalised.

If it did fit with the topic and themes of the discussion, then the whole set up of this conversation was inappropriate for the work environment.

On reflection, I’d have just left the call. I wouldn’t want to listen to it and shouldn’t have to at work.

@Blossomtoes

And you feel the same way about miscarriage, pregnancy, child birth and parenting too right? No one should talk about that either?

I feel the same about miscarriage. And I feel the same about stillbirth - also rarely discussed because anyone with a modicum of sensitivity would recognise what a devastating experience it is.

So if a woman was treated discriminately because of a miscarriage, she shouldn't be able to raise awareness of this? I am sure men would love to have us believe that barriers in the workplace come down to simply trousers and skirts. How can we have productive and serious conversations if we act like the worst things that happened to us was some dress code rule in an office in the 90s? What is even the point of that? It makes a mockery of our struggles.

@FollowtheLizards Is that a serious suggestion? Turn down the volume on the call? It’s not the football scores, ffs.

Talk about this stuff a lot, in a way which takes account of other women and their experiences. It’s really not that hard.

Dear god - things like this SHOULD be talked about, not hidden away. The way society handles death and loss and biology is so dysfunctional - because people won't talk openly about it.

I think you are brave OP. Some subjects are hard to talk about and hard to hear. I don't think it means we should hide them. I think the more we can normalize them and talk about them, the more we can feel less alone hen the happen to us. And I thinking that being less alone makes us stronger.

Last winter the central heating broke in my office building and was out for over a month. So we got jumpers, and portable radiators and hot water bottles - it really was freezing. And the hot water bottles stayed in the office. And in some intangible way it has now become totally normal for anyone ( and I'm pretty sure 99% of the time the woman who do it are on their period) to be able to say before a long meeting - even now the heating is back on and we have a comfortable 21° in the office - just a minutes, Im going to grab a hot bottle before we start. And nobody blinks. And I'm pretty sure it's because a brave colleague of mine had the courage in mid summer last year to say to a meeting room with 11 men, her and me as the only women, " can we have a short break, I need to grab a hot water bottle, I have horrible period cramps, and it'll help". It's not a lot - but it's a small thing that helps.

@ohleboulot

I think you are brave OP. Some subjects are hard to talk about and hard to hear. I don't think it means we should hide them. I think the more we can normalize them and talk about them, the more we can feel less alone hen the happen to us. And I thinking that being less alone makes us stronger.

Last winter the central heating broke in my office building and was out for over a month. So we got jumpers, and portable radiators and hot water bottles - it really was freezing. And the hot water bottles stayed in the office. And in some intangible way it has now become totally normal for anyone ( and I'm pretty sure 99% of the time the woman who do it are on their period) to be able to say before a long meeting - even now the heating is back on and we have a comfortable 21° in the office - just a minutes, Im going to grab a hot bottle before we start. And nobody blinks. And I'm pretty sure it's because a brave colleague of mine had the courage in mid summer last year to say to a meeting room with 11 men, her and me as the only women, " can we have a short break, I need to grab a hot water bottle, I have horrible period cramps, and it'll help". It's not a lot - but it's a small thing that helps.

That's really good to hear, but I don't think it's comparable to abortion.

Our biology and the way that biology ends up making life different for us in the work place really is the most important thing to discuss. In many work cultures, women’s contributions and abilities are no longer being disputed. It might not be perfect yet, but we are getting there. The real remaining barrier is that the workplace is still simply unprepared structurally and culturally to deal with the biological realities of being female. These discussions need to happen.

In a meeting in which 98% of attendees were women there’s no need to raise awareness of how we’re disadvantaged in the workplace - we’ve all experienced it firsthand. As a pp pointed out, there’s no need for anyone in the workplace to even know about a termination or miscarriage - you take time off sick and share the reason with as many or as few people as you feel comfortable with.

@VeganFuture

On reflection, I’d have just left the call. I wouldn’t want to listen to it and shouldn’t have to at work.

Same.

Personally I wouldn't have discussed anything like that with a man present. Why were they there anyway? The reason I wouldn't discuss it is because I have found some men to be very very judgemental about abortions and also judgemental about women getting pregnant unexpectedly and also not wanting to wear condoms.

I think you did the right thing to bring this up.

Sadly there will still be women today who struggle to ask for time off to have an abortion.
Where I work I would need to show evidence of any procedure in order to take time off, I also know a friend who after having a abortion dragged herself into work as she would not have got paid otherwise.

I seem to recall a thread recently about a complaint made as someone carried a sanitary towel across the office to the toilet. If men were the ones who got pregnant the world would be a different place with regards to rights and open conversation.

Is that a serious suggestion? Turn down the volume on the call? It’s not the football scores, ffs. Talk about this stuff a lot, in a way which takes account of other women and their experiences. It’s really not that hard.

TRIGGER WARNING My abortion experience and the workplace. I was raped after work one night by two 'friends' of my housemate . I somehow dragged myself out of the house at crack of dawn to try go to my GP for the morning after pill. He wouldn't prescribe it as it went against his cultural beliefs or ask one of his colleagues. I had to go to straight to work for an 8 hour shift as I'd been off sick already that month and would be put on probation otherwise. I then finally managed to get the MAP at a pharmacy miles away from home 24 hours later.

I fell pregnant. I had to schedule the termination for a 'day off'. Then had to return to work less than 12 hours later or face workplace probation or, alternatively, take my chances sharing intimate details of what had happened with a manager I barely knew before I was ready to talk about it. So yes, I'm in favour of women being able to ask for time off for gynaecological issues and abortions without having to go into details and without it counting against their work record.

@ClariceQuiff

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear - In no way did I intend to compare period pain to abortion or miscarriage.
The point that I was trying to make is that maybe sometimes it takes one brave person to raise a common yet unspoken about issue to normalize something that is not talked about.

Someone always has to go first - whatever the issue.

@FollowtheLizards I’m really sorry that that happened to you. I’m also absolutely in favour of women being able to ask for time off for gynaecological issues and abortions without having to go into details and without it counting against their work record.

I don’t see why we can’t ask for these rights in a way which respects the fact that some women would prefer not to be involved in discussions about abortion in the workplace without notice or agreement.