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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Talking about abortion in a work 'womans day' call

292 replies

RedSquirrel111 · 18/03/2022 21:34

On international woman's day we had a teams call to discuss what it's like being a woman working in our industry. Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom....
I mentioned how nearly 20 years ago I had an abortion, how it was viewed and discussed, and how I had to take unpaid leave for it. Its a very uncomfortable thing for me to talk about (due to the way people view abortion, not my experience). But I was determined to do so as think it's quite taboo. Lots of people support the right to chose theoretically, but I don't see many women discussing their experiences. I thought International womans day would be the perfect chance to do that.
I've had a 'kind chat to say it was inappropriate to bring up on the call. Reading between the lines I think it was because I said I never regretted my decision but I regretted the way my (past) employer treated me. I also, and will say I have no evidence for this, but get a feeling from reactions on the call that it was one of my male colleagues that raised it.
I get it's controversial, but it shouldn't be and that was my point in raising it. I also felt that given the context of the teams was 'women in my industry ' it wasn't out of context?
I'm torn between now feeling a bit ashamed and a bit fuck you....

OP posts:
WeDontShutUpAboutBruno · 18/03/2022 23:00

And fuck all the other women there who could be triggered? Presumably they don’t matter?

I wouldn't put it quite as bluntly as that, but it was ops experience, why shouldn't she talk about it when it directly impacted her work?

Op speaking out about this may have helped people in her workplace in future going for an abortion, do you think "fuck them, they can suffer too"?

People get triggered by all sorts of things, where is the line drawn on what we can and can't talk about?

Gilly12345 · 18/03/2022 23:03

I think this is too personal to discuss with colleagues at work.

Sorry but this is not the time or place.

Obviously you are entitled to tell who you like but why in this setting?

Just10moreminutesplease · 18/03/2022 23:04

I think I would have felt uncomfortable on the call, but I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.

I’d feel uncomfortable hearing a colleague talk about sexual harassment too. But that doesn’t mean it’s not important to talk about.

If someone has had a traumatic experience with the issues raised, they might find it even more uncomfortable (or even highly upsetting). But other than asking everyone to announce what they plan on sharing beforehand, I don’t know how this can avoided? We need to be able to discuss hard subjects for things to change. It’s a difficult one.

BennyTheWonderDog · 18/03/2022 23:04

People get triggered by all sorts of things, where is the line drawn on what we can and can't talk about?

Talking about this stuff is great, but try to do it with at least some compassion and concern for other women. That means not springing it on other women without their consent.

EinsteinaGogo · 18/03/2022 23:04

What did you want to achieve from sharing your story, OP?

ClariceQuiff · 18/03/2022 23:05

People get triggered by all sorts of things, where is the line drawn on what we can and can't talk about?

That's true, but there are some topics that are widely acknowledged to be triggering, and as such, it's reasonable to recognise that and give a warning. I'd put abortion in that category.

Of course you can't account for every sensibility. If you are triggered by 'niche' things (as I am) you don't expect warnings - you tend to develop a sixth sense about when a conversation (or whatever) is veering in that direction, and exit stage right.

But that's no reason not to give a warning about topics that common sense will tell you could trigger a significant number of people.

FollowtheLizards · 18/03/2022 23:11

And fuck all the other women there who could be triggered? Presumably they don’t matter? Surely there's a middle ground. A decent employer should state people are allowed to leave the call at any point if they feel uncomfortable. At the same time, it's unlikely the OP went into graphic details, with the focus being on how the necessary time off is viewed in the workplace.

Interested to know what kinds of issues other women would have raised on such a call if speaking about reproductive matters is too taboo.

EmpressSuiko · 18/03/2022 23:11

I understand peoples concerns over how others would feel but at the same time I don’t think it was inappropriate and sometimes we do need to deal with highly sensitive topics in professional environments.
The OPs experience was about how poorly her employer dealt with her situation. Woman commonly face barriers when it comes to these situations, we always have to fight for everything when we shouldn’t need to, woman still face being treated like second class citizens and it isn’t fair.
Things may have improved from 20 years ago but it’s apparent that woman still face discrimination and unfair treatment in the workplace and we all still need to push for this to stop, if we stay quiet because some our experiences may be highly personal and upsetting to others then nothing will change, it’s important that we talk about all issues that women face in the workplace.

dfendyr · 18/03/2022 23:11

Would you talk about maternity leave? Is it really so different? It's requiring absence from the office/ work place for gynaecology reasons.

Aaaabbbcccc · 18/03/2022 23:12

I think raising it is completely inappropriate. It is beyond the scope of what you would expect someone to raise on a call like this and I think you misjudged it.

I say this as someone who is staunchly pro-choice and who is all for woman's experiences being shared and talked about. Even I would have thought it was bizarre and too much.
Why you couldn’t get a doctor’s certificate and receive sick pay? It is a medical procedure you need to recover from and that’s why you have sick pay. Sorry if I am missing something - I am just wondering because I assumed it would be something that time could be taken off for.

godmum56 · 18/03/2022 23:13

@Gilly12345

I think this is too personal to discuss with colleagues at work.

Sorry but this is not the time or place.

Obviously you are entitled to tell who you like but why in this setting?

because it was a part of the OP's experience of being female in the workplace
oceanskye · 18/03/2022 23:13

I have had a medical termination, it was a long time ago and I am at peace with it now, however in the year or so after the termination I would have found it extremely upsetting to have the topic raised in a work meeting, especially if it was being discussed in a matter of fact "medical procedure" way.

Abaababa · 18/03/2022 23:16

YABU for all the reasons outlined by PPs.

BennyTheWonderDog · 18/03/2022 23:17

Would you talk about maternity leave? Is it really so different?

What the fuck?

VeganFuture · 18/03/2022 23:19

I wouldn’t have complained because I would have had sympathy for what you went through.

However I wouldn’t have wanted to listen to you talk about abortion yet may have felt I couldn’t leave the call. And I’d have wondered what you would have gained from it. I do think it’s a topic that you should be mindful of others feelings on in certain situations like at work.

Aaaabbbcccc · 18/03/2022 23:20

And I assume expressing your experience that you never regretted the abortion was just way too far over the line. It has nothing to do with the work context and for someone who is anti abortion may have come across as needlessly provocative. It could put people in a very uncomfortable position if you put them in a position of having to agree or disagree or sitting in silence. Way too much imposition on colleagues in their place of work. Your employer was right to raise it with you.

dfendyr · 18/03/2022 23:21

@BennyTheWonderDog

Would you talk about maternity leave? Is it really so different?

What the fuck?

It's an absence due to female reproductive system. Whether it ends in a live birth or a termination, it's still very female.

What do you mean by what the fuck

LottyD32 · 18/03/2022 23:23

@RedSquirrel111

On international woman's day we had a teams call to discuss what it's like being a woman working in our industry. Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom.... I mentioned how nearly 20 years ago I had an abortion, how it was viewed and discussed, and how I had to take unpaid leave for it. Its a very uncomfortable thing for me to talk about (due to the way people view abortion, not my experience). But I was determined to do so as think it's quite taboo. Lots of people support the right to chose theoretically, but I don't see many women discussing their experiences. I thought International womans day would be the perfect chance to do that. I've had a 'kind chat to say it was inappropriate to bring up on the call. Reading between the lines I think it was because I said I never regretted my decision but I regretted the way my (past) employer treated me. I also, and will say I have no evidence for this, but get a feeling from reactions on the call that it was one of my male colleagues that raised it. I get it's controversial, but it shouldn't be and that was my point in raising it. I also felt that given the context of the teams was 'women in my industry ' it wasn't out of context? I'm torn between now feeling a bit ashamed and a bit fuck you....
I don't think abortions are appropriate work conversation, same as politics, religion etc. Confused
dfendyr · 18/03/2022 23:24

@BennyTheWonderDog

Would you talk about maternity leave? Is it really so different?

What the fuck?

And by the way, by your 'what the fuck" comment made feel that I shouldn't have asked the question

Was that your intention?

RoastedFerret · 18/03/2022 23:24

I presume everyone who says it is too 'triggering' would feel the same way if miscarriage, pregnancy or childbirth was brought up? They can be just as triggering.

I think well done you OP. I live in country that has only recently legalised abortion and I talk about it openly whenever it is relevant. You can see from this thread just how stigmatised this medical procedure still is. The more people that talk openly about it the better imo. Of course you should have brought it up something that is relevant to women in the workplace, 1 in 4 pregnancies in England and Wales end in abortion, it is an experience shared by many.

rocksonrocks · 18/03/2022 23:29

Absolutely not appropriate. I’ve had a TFMR and would have felt absolutely incandescent at you nonchalantly bringing it up in a work environment. And it’s not even relevant to the point of the call either.

@dfendyr erm…of course it’s completely different. What a bloody stupid thing to say.

Thatswhyimacat · 18/03/2022 23:29

I'd feel incredibly uncomfortable hearing this and I know others who, shortly after having an abortion, would be incredibly upset to hear that conversation. I don't know if that overrides your need to talk about it but I come down on the side that it does - I believe the needs of someone who may be recently upset about an abortion or find the topic upsetting should be prioritised over a discussion of an abortion 20 years ago, especially at work where you wouldn't expect it to come up.

BennyTheWonderDog · 18/03/2022 23:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Blossomtoes · 18/03/2022 23:34

You can see from this thread just how stigmatised this medical procedure still is

You can see from this thread just how traumatised some women who have had this medical procedure still are. Yet your need to talk openly about it somehow overrides that.

ChampagneLassie · 18/03/2022 23:36

I think this was really brave of you. Totally agree we talk about women's right to choice a lot but very few people talk about it reality.

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