Talking about abortion in a work 'womans day' call

[RedSquirrel111]

On international woman's day we had a teams call to discuss what it's like being a woman working in our industry. Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom....
I mentioned how nearly 20 years ago I had an abortion, how it was viewed and discussed, and how I had to take unpaid leave for it. Its a very uncomfortable thing for me to talk about (due to the way people view abortion, not my experience). But I was determined to do so as think it's quite taboo. Lots of people support the right to chose theoretically, but I don't see many women discussing their experiences. I thought International womans day would be the perfect chance to do that.
I've had a 'kind chat to say it was inappropriate to bring up on the call. Reading between the lines I think it was because I said I never regretted my decision but I regretted the way my (past) employer treated me. I also, and will say I have no evidence for this, but get a feeling from reactions on the call that it was one of my male colleagues that raised it.
I get it's controversial, but it shouldn't be and that was my point in raising it. I also felt that given the context of the teams was 'women in my industry ' it wasn't out of context?
I'm torn between now feeling a bit ashamed and a bit fuck you....

@1000yellowdaisies

I think thats really inappropriate and I don't think you should have bought it up at all. I had an abortion when i was 18. Im now late 30s, married with 2 small children. There's about 2 people who know about it and my husband doesn't.

I don't feel ashamed but I've never felt the need to discuss what is first and foremost a medical procedure.
You planned this regardless of whether or not it was appropriate based on you saying you were 'determined to do so'.

It feels like youve used something that you and me and thousands of other women have been through to try and be controversial and break what you feel is a taboo... women can access abortions freely and easily in this country so who says its taboo?
So much else to talk about on international womens day...
All you probably did was make people feel uncomfortable.

Because I took unpaid leave for it? Because whilst on leave I missed out on bonus because it wasn't counted as either holiday or medical. Because when I told my manager his response was 'I can fucking do without this right now, don't think you're going to get paid' (it was discretionary. That I didn't get paid was due to his judgement). I then missed out on a secondment Because I didn't hit my sales target.

Just that, for me, this is the same as sharing the 'I wasn't allowed to wear trousers'.

I would ask for your employers full policy on what is not suitable to be discussed at work. This is ridiculous. We must stop being silenced about the material reality of being female. Not so long ago the same was said of periods, pregnancy, miscarriage, menopause… I could go on but it’s basically every thing connected to being female. Ask for more details OP, it’s not right that you have been reprimanded especially when you felt you were in a “safe space”. I normally bawk at that phrase but in this case you can leverage it to your advantage.

@WomanStanleyWoman

Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom....

This seems needlessly dismissive. Can no one Caucasian attend a call or presentation about Black History Month? No straight people involved in Pride Month? I thought we were meant to encourage people to learn.

Agreed

He should get over himself. I don't think you were in the wrong at but I do think the concept of the call sounds like a box ticking exercise. You'll know in future not to bother contributing at least.

You've got to laugh ,haven't you?
20 years after the event are youre still getting shit at your work about it?
I wouldn't have brought it up but fair play.

@RedSquirrel111

Just that, for me, this is the same as sharing the 'I wasn't allowed to wear trousers'.

For you maybe an abortion is the same as deciding what clothing you can and can't wear. But for others it will be very emotive.

It was a general 'talk about our experiences as a woman

Exactly. A discussion about experiences of being at work. Generally it would be expected to be about how women have been discriminated against, and how expectations are inbuilt in some people and some organisations, not a time to start sharing personal medical details. It wasn't the right event.

Yeah, I agree with some of the other posters saying this was probably too triggering of a topic to bring up in a call like this. I personally wouldn’t have been offended or complained but I can imagine that if I had had an abortion and was less confident than you in my feelings about it I’d find it being brought up out of the blue a bit upsetting.

I don’t think you did anything massively “wrong” but it was a bit insensitive. While you might not think it’s any different from the wearing trousers debate (and personally I probably feel equally relaxed about it) others don’t feel that way.

@WomanStanleyWoman

Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom....

This seems needlessly dismissive. Can no one Caucasian attend a call or presentation about Black History Month? No straight people involved in Pride Month? I thought we were meant to encourage people to learn.

Of the 2 men of over a hundred that joined the meeting.... Well, one told my younger collegue that she was 'wrong' when she shared that her experience of industry events were make dominated. That she was one of 2 women on a table of 12... I said originally that I don't know that this has come from a male collegue, but his involvement in the call seemed to be to prove a point.

I think it was completely inappropriate to bring this up unless it was flagged in advance as a topic and very unfair on the other women involved.

Yeah but if you read the replies here you will see a lot of women don’t agree with you, so if there were 2 men on that call and 98+ women it was far more likely to be a woman. It’s a very personal and emotive subject for many, nothing like wether or not trousers should be allowed.

@ClariceQuiff

Could it perhaps have been triggering for some of the participants on the call? I can think of various reasons why it might have been - women who have had an abortion and regretted it or found it traumatic; possibly those who have lost a baby or suffered infertility. I don't mean that abortion shouldn't be discussed, but it's perhaps not something that should be introduced into a general women-focused call without a trigger warning.

I agree. I can imagine some women feeling very uncomfortable with this. Two of my friends who have had terminations would have been mortified if they’d been in that meeting.

@WomanStanleyWoman

Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom....

This seems needlessly dismissive. Can no one Caucasian attend a call or presentation about Black History Month? No straight people involved in Pride Month? I thought we were meant to encourage people to learn.

Attending and learning is very different than giving your opinion on something you have no experience of to people who do have that experience.

I’m with @1000yellowdaisies and @BennyTheWonderDog

I’ve just supported a best friend through a termination for medical reasons. This would be a fucking terrible call to have participated in for her, and for me actually, and is NO WHERE a near likenable to wearing skirts not trousers.

It wasn't inappropriate at all op.

It was a medical procedure, it impacted your work, you were entitled to share that if you felt comfortable doing so.

Well done. What is the point of these days if not to raise issues that specifically affect women and influence their experience in the workplace? People with fertility problems might feel “triggered” by someone talking about poor maternity leave - it doesn’t negate the issue or make it wrong to raise it. You did the right thing.

The normalisation of discussing topics such as this in an open space starts with the bravery to speak out and put yourself in a vulnerable position.

Yes it might make people feel uncomfortable - but that is the whole point, until we break down these emotional and cultural barriers and recognise that these issues shouldn't only be suffered behind closed doors - we are only causing more pain and anguish because the support networks simply aren't where they need to be

You absolutely did the right think and you should feel very proud for helping society take a stride forward through personal sacrifice and courage

@WeDontShutUpAboutBruno

It wasn't inappropriate at all op.

It was a medical procedure, it impacted your work, you were entitled to share that if you felt comfortable doing so.

And fuck all the other women there who could be triggered? Presumably they don’t matter?

@1000yellowdaisies

I think thats really inappropriate and I don't think you should have bought it up at all. I had an abortion when i was 18. Im now late 30s, married with 2 small children. There's about 2 people who know about it and my husband doesn't.

I don't feel ashamed but I've never felt the need to discuss what is first and foremost a medical procedure.
You planned this regardless of whether or not it was appropriate based on you saying you were 'determined to do so'.

It feels like youve used something that you and me and thousands of other women have been through to try and be controversial and break what you feel is a taboo... women can access abortions freely and easily in this country so who says its taboo?
So much else to talk about on international womens day...
All you probably did was make people feel uncomfortable.

And you two (@Kite22) are part of the problem. Because you chose to “tell just 2 people” is your prerogative, it doesn’t meant that’s the rule everyone should follow. I think it’s fairly prude and outdated to think women should go through these events and keep shut. If you wanted to do that, that’s your decision but you shouldn’t slate someone else because they chose to be more open.

I find it interesting that you say you’re not ashamed, but you’ve never told your husband. It’s never come up in conversation? You’ve never discussed it at all? How close are you and your husband? 👀 bizarre. Either way, nobody berates you for that decision and you should do the same 😘

I've had a tfmr (anencephaly) and it wouldn't bother me. I almost certainly wouldn't raise it in the same situation but I'd admire you for doing so

@SarahAndQuack

But surely, if the OP's work had thought things through, this conversation would have been advertised with a warning there might be topics of a sensitive nature discussed?

Otherwise what is the point? 'Hi ladies, I want you to talk about what it's like being a woman in our industry ... oh, but do remember! Nothing to do with being a person with a reproductive system, or any sad stuff!'

What good would that do?

^^ this absolutely. If you are going to do things like this in a work environment, then you are already widening the discussion brief beyond what is normally considered appropriate in the workplace. I find it "interesting" that your direct manager is a man. I do wonder whether a female manager would have reacted differently? can i ask who set the group call up and whose idea it was?

@TinySaltLick

The normalisation of discussing topics such as this in an open space starts with the bravery to speak out and put yourself in a vulnerable position.

Yes it might make people feel uncomfortable - but that is the whole point, until we break down these emotional and cultural barriers and recognise that these issues shouldn't only be suffered behind closed doors - we are only causing more pain and anguish because the support networks simply aren't where they need to be

You absolutely did the right think and you should feel very proud for helping society take a stride forward through personal sacrifice and courage

Some good points here but it misses a key issue- the agreement of the other women involved. There have been times in my life when this would have been really unbearable for me. It’s great that OP feels able to talk openly about her abortion but she shouldn’t assume all women will be in the same place.

The comment that “it might make people feel uncomfortable- but that is the whole point” is cruel. It’s not for OP to decide whether other women should attend an abortion discussion in the workplace and there is no way she can have known what the other women on the call had experienced or were experiencing.

I think it’s fairly prude and outdated to think women should go through these events and keep shut

Absolutely no one has said this. All people are saying is that there should've been some warning that a potentially very sensitive topic was going to be discussed. Participants could then have made an informed choice about joining the call - or perhaps choosing to drop off for that segment.