Talking about abortion in a work 'womans day' call

[RedSquirrel111]

On international woman's day we had a teams call to discuss what it's like being a woman working in our industry. Was mainly women who took part, with a handful of men ready to impart their wisdom....
I mentioned how nearly 20 years ago I had an abortion, how it was viewed and discussed, and how I had to take unpaid leave for it. Its a very uncomfortable thing for me to talk about (due to the way people view abortion, not my experience). But I was determined to do so as think it's quite taboo. Lots of people support the right to chose theoretically, but I don't see many women discussing their experiences. I thought International womans day would be the perfect chance to do that.
I've had a 'kind chat to say it was inappropriate to bring up on the call. Reading between the lines I think it was because I said I never regretted my decision but I regretted the way my (past) employer treated me. I also, and will say I have no evidence for this, but get a feeling from reactions on the call that it was one of my male colleagues that raised it.
I get it's controversial, but it shouldn't be and that was my point in raising it. I also felt that given the context of the teams was 'women in my industry ' it wasn't out of context?
I'm torn between now feeling a bit ashamed and a bit fuck you....

And it needs to be optional with no comeback for those that don’t attend.

Absolutely.

Ereshkigalangcleg

There’s usually an expectation to attend though. We had an LGBT one at work recently. LGB, all good, but I’m not going to sit and listen to why we have to all accept that men can be women or women can be men and we all need to be kind. Not a fucking chance. I didn’t attend, know that my absence was noted and expect to be spoken about it in my 1:1 with my manager next week. I just want to get on with my job.

So sharing her experience of aborting a child
@VeganFuture
I think this phraseology says it all about where you are coming from. Your own personal opinions about “morality” are irrelevant. It’s a legal medical procedure and women are entitled not to have it affect their employment rights. OP experienced discrimination and was very correct in sharing that during a work meeting about women’s equality at work.

@VeganFuture

Ereshkigalangcleg

There’s usually an expectation to attend though. We had an LGBT one at work recently. LGB, all good, but I’m not going to sit and listen to why we have to all accept that men can be women or women can be men and we all need to be kind. Not a fucking chance. I didn’t attend, know that my absence was noted and expect to be spoken about it in my 1:1 with my manager next week. I just want to get on with my job.

No need to bring your transphobia into this thread 😂

I think this phraseology says it all about where you are coming from. Your own personal opinions about “morality” are irrelevant. It’s a legal medical procedure and women are entitled not to have it affect their employment rights. OP experienced discrimination and was very correct in sharing that during a work meeting about women’s equality at work.

I can’t be bothered to go back and check but I’m pretty sure I’ve said I believe in a woman’s right to choose, for me there’s no other option. If a woman does not want to have a baby then it is not in the woman or child’s interest to go ahead with the pregnancy. If my daughter or good friend wanted an abortion I would do whatever I could to help and support. But it’s still not something I’m overly comfortable with and not something I should have to talk about with a random person.

Of course women shouldn’t be discriminated against because of it and if they think that’s an issue at their place of work, they should talk to HR. A chat in a box ticking meeting with people who do not have the power to change anything, is pointless.

No need to bring your transphobia into this thread

Oh dear god. It’s not transphobic to say that women are women and men are men. You can’t change sex and I don’t believe in gender. Precisely why I don’t want to attend these calls, I just want to do my job.

Anyway, I don’t want to derail the thread and I currently feel quite ill as I tested positive for covid yesterday so I won’t be commenting further.

@VeganFuture

I think this phraseology says it all about where you are coming from. Your own personal opinions about “morality” are irrelevant. It’s a legal medical procedure and women are entitled not to have it affect their employment rights. OP experienced discrimination and was very correct in sharing that during a work meeting about women’s equality at work.

I can’t be bothered to go back and check but I’m pretty sure I’ve said I believe in a woman’s right to choose, for me there’s no other option. If a woman does not want to have a baby then it is not in the woman or child’s interest to go ahead with the pregnancy. If my daughter or good friend wanted an abortion I would do whatever I could to help and support. But it’s still not something I’m overly comfortable with and not something I should have to talk about with a random person.

Of course women shouldn’t be discriminated against because of it and if they think that’s an issue at their place of work, they should talk to HR. A chat in a box ticking meeting with people who do not have the power to change anything, is pointless.

In that case I apologise for misunderstanding your meaning and intention x

Not a fucking chance. I didn’t attend, know that my absence was noted and expect to be spoken about it in my 1:1 with my manager next week. I just want to get on with my job.

I sympathise.

And it needs to be optional with no comeback for those that don’t attend.

It wasn't mandatory, that is pretty clear from the OP's post.

The discussion was entirely appropriate for a group of women discussing issues which affect them at work. Not every woman will want to discuss miscarriage, loss of a child, caring for elderly or ill dependents, fertility treatment, abortion, caring for disabled child. They are still all issues which disproportionately affect women and their opportunities at work and therefore relevant and worth discussing by those women who want to engage.

The discussion was entirely appropriate for a group of women discussing issues which affect them at work. Not every woman will want to discuss miscarriage, loss of a child, caring for elderly or ill dependents, fertility treatment, abortion, caring for disabled child. They are still all issues which disproportionately affect women and their opportunities at work and therefore relevant and worth discussing by those women who want to engage.

Yes, precisely.

But it’s still not something I’m overly comfortable with and not something I should have to talk about with a random person.

No one is saying you should have to. People should be free to opt out if they need to, but what they shouldn’t do is make their comfort someone else’s problem. Your comfort is yours to manage, OP or anyone else shouldn’t be expected to shut up because you may not like what she has to say.

@BobMortimersPetOwl

Pregnancy and miscarriage don't evoke strong emotions?! Are you serious?

Do you think they're on the same level as abortion, something which people hold very strong opinions about, often linked to their faith or moral code?

Don't be so bloody obtuse.

However strongly you feel about abortion, I don’t see how someone else deciding to terminate a child could ever be at the same emotional level as someone’s own experience of late miscarriage and losing their own much wanted child. I guess that’s me being bloody obtuse.

www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1088&context=ijgls

This is a decent insight as to the mafia state that was Russia in the immediate post Soviet era.

Some more:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/sept99/yeltsin8.htm

demokratizatsiya.pub/archives/02-3_Waller.PDF

“Despite issuing numerous decrees, President Boris Yeltsin has not been part of the solution, but part of the problem. The West's reluctance to criticize his government or to condition assistance and cooperation seem to have encouraged criminal elements in the Russian leader's personal inner circle. Western fears of "undermining Yeltsin" by objecting to the presence of such people in power are having the opposite intended effect by playing into the hands of the extreme ultranationalists and Communists. Though never implicated personally in corrupt activity, the Russian leader appears to have protected criminal elements in the highest echelons of government.”

@whumpthereitis

www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1088&context=ijgls

This is a decent insight as to the mafia state that was Russia in the immediate post Soviet era.

Some more:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/sept99/yeltsin8.htm

demokratizatsiya.pub/archives/02-3_Waller.PDF

“Despite issuing numerous decrees, President Boris Yeltsin has not been part of the solution, but part of the problem. The West's reluctance to criticize his government or to condition assistance and cooperation seem to have encouraged criminal elements in the Russian leader's personal inner circle. Western fears of "undermining Yeltsin" by objecting to the presence of such people in power are having the opposite intended effect by playing into the hands of the extreme ultranationalists and Communists. Though never implicated personally in corrupt activity, the Russian leader appears to have protected criminal elements in the highest echelons of government.”

Sorry, wrong thread!

I think it would be fair to give feedback to your manager that if they’re going to organize this type of discussion where employees are encouraged to discuss things that are often considered delicate subjects (maternity leave, maternity discrimination, sex based discrimination in the work place, etc) but some subjects are too taboo for the discussion, then that needs to be made crystal clear beforehand. It’s not fair to expect employees to know where the company’s imaginary line is.
Your point about fair leave for a common medical procedure that affects only women is extremely relevant to the topic the meeting was about OP. From an employer’s point of view, an abortion a women chooses because she does not wish to continue a pregnancy is no different to a termination for medical reasons or a miscarriage. All three scenarios require some time off work, with some flexibility in how much time might be needed, some discretion and some compassion.

Ooh how naughty of you to bring up something that literally only women can experience and also happens to be a divisive issue. Next time, talk about housework or shopping or something.

Our WWD crap a couple of years ago was entirely owned by one bloke whose feelings were hurt when he kept getting told off for talking over the top of everyone so he could share HIS experiences. He kept telling us he was an empath too. 🤮🤢🤮