to think this shouldn't be normalised?

[ChristinaRussell]

I came across this Blind Date column in The Guardian from a couple of weeks ago: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/mar/05/blind-date-sam-jenn

Apparently ordering 4 shots before you even sit down to dinner means you're great fun. AIBU to think it actually means you might have a bit of a problem? I get so fed up with heavy drinking being equated with having a good personality and a good time, and if you don't want to get hammered you must be really dull.

For context, I do drink alcohol, but I don't particularly like being drunk, and I LOATHE hangovers - I really don't think that (for me) they are worth the night before.

I'm trying very hard not to come across as po-faced, and honestly, each to their own, but I know that some people I've come across in my life have thought I'm incredibly boring because I prefer not to get rat-arsed. I think, generally speaking, that this is a prevalent attitude in our society and it shouldn't be.

I'm now donning my hard hat in preparation for being told how boring and judgemental I am

I actually, despite being a drinker myself, was recently part of the team that organised some sober social events. One was a comedy night. It was practically impossible to book comedians, they don't want to play to a sober audience....

@kite22 I do find the fact that you said - when you were able to drink alcohol - you were "a stickler for the 14 Units of alcohol a week max" - like that is something to be proud of. You do realise that most of us don't even need to be counting / recording in that way as we don't get near that sort of limit (or 'target' ?) ?
You see i think it's comments like yours that lead to the Anyone on MN who has more than a small sherry on Xmas day has a 'problem Anyone who objects to your view on drinking has to have a drink problem...even someone who explains they don't have a problem, must have because they even thought about it enough to mention it, Is this how you judge your friends on real life?

@Sitdownnext The post you replied to was unnecessarily sanctimonious and unhelpful, I agree.

I think I get the point that poster was trying to make though, although I’m not sure it needed to be said at that moment. For me a big lightbulb moment in my road to sobriety was realising how little truly ‘moderate’ drinkers actually think about alcohol.

It’s a bit like how some people are ‘naturally’ slim and some people are slim through sheer willpower. In my experience my ‘naturally’ slim friends don’t spend all their time thinking about food, they don’t overeat because it just makes them feel gross, and they seem to have a kind of natural stopping point which keeps them from overdoing it without having to give it very much thought.

Similarly, I found a lot of my friends could take or leave alcohol, they probably couldn’t tell you when they last had a drink because they’ve never felt the need to keep track, and could happily savour a nice glass of wine over a meal without being bothered about whether they had another one. They don’t track units or make a point to alternate every glass with a glass of water, they don’t need to. Alcohol just doesn’t occupy any space in their brains or require any kind of planning beyond ‘am I driving tonight?’

I, on the other hand, would be constantly bartering with myself: ‘if I drink tonight then I won’t drink tomorrow, but then I have that thing at the weekend and I’ll have to drink then, but maybe I can just have a few…’. If I saw a waiter coming round with top-ups I’d be doing the mental maths to try to figure out whether I could get away with accepting a refill or whether I would regret it tomorrow. If I was having dinner with friends I’d finish my glass of wine before everyone else and then I wouldn’t be able to concentrate on the conversation because I’d be glaring around the table thinking ‘will someone hurry up and finish so I can pour some top-ups?’ This is why I know moderation will never work for me and it’s genuinely freeing for me to just know I’m having nothing. Takes up so much less headspace!

@firewomansam For me a big lightbulb moment in my road to sobriety was realising how little truly ‘moderate’ drinkers actually think about alcohol I think you are right. I almost never think about it at all, it just doesn't come on the radar. I notice if others are drinking a lot but it is a fleeting awareness, no other thoughts about it, definitely no judgement either way. After a while of sobriety you may well feel the same and drink moderately, because after a bit your body changes and reacts differently to alcohol - for example I have zero enzymes nowadays, more than one drink would just make me feel ill not tipsy. For me the self bartering is more to do with sugar, because I am so tired most of the time, so I am now considering going cold turkey on sugar...

I do also think that although group dynamics are different with alcohol, people who know how to let their hair down and have fun can do it with or without alcohol.

It would put me off someone - I don;t really drink but have no problem with people who do like a drink with their meal or whatever. But to drink four shots before you even start means you are already a bit drunk - I don't want to get to know someone when they are drunk or for them to try to get to know me when they are drunk. I don't think being drunk makes you fun - it usually makes people incredibly dull as they witter on about tedious stuff, over share and lose their filter.
I did go on a date with someone who drank steadily throughout the meal to the extent of leaping up and trying to kiss me across the dinner table and knocking over my glass of water. He then wanted to drive me home. I ordered a taxi and told him he needed to share it with me as he wasn't fit to drive and to get his car in the morning - which to be fair he agreed to, if he hadn't agreed I'd have called the police and reported him. I don't care if he thought I was a fun sponge, I wasn't going out with him again and he was probably glad to see the back of me. But drinking certainly didn't make him fun it made him repulsive.

@iseeu Never say never, I guess, but it’s been three years and I genuinely can’t ever see myself going back to drinking. I’ve done so much work to confront what a negative influence alcohol was on my life, that it would feel odd to reintroduce it in any capacity. Like suggesting that an ex-smoker who’s worked really hard to quit should just have an occasional cigarette. I feel like I’d be sending myself mixed signals and I just can’t see it going well.

I do have the odd week or two where I start thinking ‘maybe it wouldn’t be so bad…’ but then I catch myself obsessing over the idea and that’s proof enough for me that I definitely shouldn’t go back there.

I’m with you on the sugar too, I have far too much of that and it got worse when I stopped drinking, which is apparently very common. If I have to pick a vice though then I’m ok with it being sugar (for now, at least) and at least I’ve never ended up in hospital after falling over under the influence of too many maltesers!

@dontblamemee

Anyone on MN who has more than a small sherry on Xmas day has a 'problem' 🙄

Exactly. Even that is extreme. A thimbleful is sufficient