to think this shouldn't be normalised?

[ChristinaRussell]

I came across this Blind Date column in The Guardian from a couple of weeks ago: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/mar/05/blind-date-sam-jenn

Apparently ordering 4 shots before you even sit down to dinner means you're great fun. AIBU to think it actually means you might have a bit of a problem? I get so fed up with heavy drinking being equated with having a good personality and a good time, and if you don't want to get hammered you must be really dull.

For context, I do drink alcohol, but I don't particularly like being drunk, and I LOATHE hangovers - I really don't think that (for me) they are worth the night before.

I'm trying very hard not to come across as po-faced, and honestly, each to their own, but I know that some people I've come across in my life have thought I'm incredibly boring because I prefer not to get rat-arsed. I think, generally speaking, that this is a prevalent attitude in our society and it shouldn't be.

I'm now donning my hard hat in preparation for being told how boring and judgemental I am

@5thnonblonde

Really? I love a chilled glass of dry white wine with grilled prawns, then a full bodied red with a juicy rare steak. My friend loves an archers and lemonade with his smoked salmon, then a coke to accompany his chicken salad. His is absolutely not to my taste, but I’m not having it so who cares? We still have a great night out!

It's the same (or less) alcohol than a couple of large g&ts, or a cocktail. Even if you had a couple of cocktails a week you'd be well within government guidelines for alcohol. Would you ask who feels good after a cocktail?

Yeah it's not really the same though is it.

Because shots are knocked back in seconds, whereas a long drink is consumed over a longer period of time.

People do shots to get drunk quickly. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

Shots are so 90s aren't they?

@AbsentmindedWoman

But so what? You’re both consuming the same amount of booze (which was the pint of this thread). I’ve been to a lot of Russian a Polish restaurants where the majority have a shot of vodka with their blinis. It does feel like snobbishness to chastise someone for a shot when you’re having the same amount of alcohol albeit over a longer period of time (which was your point).

I don't see how one bloke saying something factual - she ordered 4 shots before dinner - equates to the Guardian normalising anything?

(I would find someone ordering 4 shots to be fun when I was that age, ie pre-children. Not so much now)

So getting 'drunk' (not that four units would get many people drunk) slowly is ok, but doing so quickly isn't? Why?

So it's the speed they're drunk at that's the issue? Why? It's exactly the same amount of alcohol and the effects are the same.

No, it isn't the same.

Your body processes alcohol at a speed of around a unit per hour.

A shot is consumed in seconds. Other drinks are consumed over time.

Of course how quickly the alcohol is ingested comes into play when looking at how quickly those units of alcohol will make a person tipsy/ drunk/ whatever.

It is remarkably stupid to attempt to pretend otherwise.

@AbsentmindedWoman

But that wasn’t your point, and that assumes that you’re drinking more or less than the other person, which wasn’t in your original argument. If I drank a shot, and you had a G&T, then we would both be at the same level after an hour, in fact my body would have probably already half processed my shot where as you were keeping yourself constantly topped up.

@TypicalMe a Pornstar Martini has 2.3 units of alcohol (I choose a pornstar as it also has a shot of Prosecco so likely highly alcohol than another cocktail), a shot has 1.4 units. So actually 4 shots is more alcohol than 2 cocktails and also is right on the border of binge drinking for women. I do think it is an issue to be drinking at that level before the meal as I would assume that they would also have a glass of wine with the meal at the very least.

@AbsentmindedWoman

So it's the speed they're drunk at that's the issue? Why? It's exactly the same amount of alcohol and the effects are the same.

No, it isn't the same.

Your body processes alcohol at a speed of around a unit per hour.

A shot is consumed in seconds. Other drinks are consumed over time.

Of course how quickly the alcohol is ingested comes into play when looking at how quickly those units of alcohol will make a person tipsy/ drunk/ whatever.

It is remarkably stupid to attempt to pretend otherwise.

So what you're saying is, the person who's had the shots will 'recover' sooner than someone who's nursing their gin and tonics, by dint of the fact that they've finished their drinks first.

It is remarkably stupid to attempt to pretend otherwise

Not really, given you've debunked your own argument

But what does "going to miami" mean ???

[quote Testingprof]@TypicalMe a Pornstar Martini has 2.3 units of alcohol (I choose a pornstar as it also has a shot of Prosecco so likely highly alcohol than another cocktail), a shot has 1.4 units. So actually 4 shots is more alcohol than 2 cocktails and also is right on the border of binge drinking for women. I do think it is an issue to be drinking at that level before the meal as I would assume that they would also have a glass of wine with the meal at the very least.[/quote]
I'm thinking about something like a Bijoux or a Tipperary, something that probably wouldn't cause outpourings of snobbishness given they cost a tenner a pop. Easily four units in those if they're made properly.

So what you're saying is, the person who's had the shots will 'recover' sooner than someone who's nursing their gin and tonics, by dint of the fact that they've finished their drinks first.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all

Commiserations if your lack of understanding is genuine, which I doubt.

@AbsentmindedWoman you're very rude aren't you. Are you drunk?

We’re world renowned for overdoing the booze, and we have been for decades.

Ever allude to this subject at all on MN, however, and you will get shouted down. Why anyone would take discussion of over-drinking personally, if their consumption level is fine, I can never quite work out.

Reading comments it seems more like your issue is with people saying you're boring when you choose not to get drunk, rather than other people having lots of drinks? The article seems like an excuse to project - it doesnt say anywhere that people who don't drink four shots before a date are lame!

@AbsentmindedWoman

So what are you saying? It’s a bit confusing? If one person has 2 units of alcohol in shot form, and the other has 2 in long form, then surely they are having the same amount no matter how long they are drinking them over. The person who has the shot is processing the alcohol immediately, the long drink is continuously processed. You’ll both be the same after a couple of hours.

Thesilverytinselypussycat - Mary Berry seems full of vim and vigour for a woman of her age, who knows, maybe it's the alcohol keeping her going

@Incognito32

1 guy said this as his opinion......it's one person's experience. You made it sound like this is the Guardian's consensus or did I miss something?

The whole drinking culture thing is lagging about 30 years behind smoking culture.

That’s why it looks odd to people who are ahead of the curve.

You’d never see a jolly Guardian headline about how funny it was that someone was chainsmoking, but go back a few decades and a smoke for nerves or to be sociable was normal.

@incognitoforthisone

Apparently ordering 4 shots before you even sit down to dinner means you're great fun.

I would run a mile from someone who had four shots before dinner, personally! I used to work with a woman who drank like that and we all found her unbearable when we went out, to be honest.

In this case of this article, I don't think it necessarily means she 'has a problem' as it might not be habitual for her. But I do get where you're coming from about it being annoying when people equate 'drunk' with 'fun' and I agree that if you're not drinking, or only drinking in moderation, it's really tedious when other people bang on about it.There a billion reasons why someone might not be drinking, and 'I just hate being drunk' is absolutely a valid one.

(Although I also think there are many different ways to decline a drink, and occasionally people do it in a way that makes it very clear they're judging the hell out of the drinkers and consider themselves far superior, which is also tedious.)

I don't really think the article is normalising it, though. The point of the Blind Date feature is for the couple to express their personal opinions about each other and what they personally liked/disliked/noticed. And I think the fact that they've pulled out that particular quote actually makes it clear that it's very much not the norm - if it was the norm, the guy on the date wouldn't have mentioned it and the Guardian wouldn't have used the quote in the headline.

I know the bloke himself implies that it means she was fun or interesting or whatever, but that's really just about him and his impressions. I'm pretty sure a lot of people, male or female, would have said 'First impressions? She ordered four shots before we'd even sat down to eat so I was a bit horrified to be honest.'

This is spot on.

Drinking unsafe amounts is not peculiar to British people. Likewise being British doesn't mean that you drink to excess or at all.

It is very dull when people insist that it is - but not them, of course.

@Valeriekat

You are absolutely correct. Does "fun" mean too out of it to consent?

Yes. I realise now.

Shudders at the memory

Ok, sorry, had to go and do stuff...

Having read some of the comments I think I need to clarify:

I wasn't meaning that this particular article in isolation was normalising drinking to excess; it was more a peg on which to hang my concern/sensitivities about how in this country if you don't want to get drunk, you're boring. Maybe I am boring, I don't know! But I used to have a neighbour (kind of a more-boho-than-thou type) who would laugh at me for leaving a party 'early' having only had a few glasses of wine - they would carry on until the next day, drinking & smoking weed. That's just not me, sorry. And there have been lots of other occasions when I've not wanted to drink and felt out of the loop. So perhaps I shouldn't have tagged the Guardian article at all. I get that she was probably nervous given the situation, and even I would probably have had something to take the edge off!

Please let's disregard the article and just discuss the normalisation of heavy drinking, because that is an interesting subject.

Secondly, the accusations of snobbery - WTAF?? You know NOTHING about me! I would have felt the same had it been 4 single malts, 4 glasses of wine, whatever comparable number of G&Ts... I really don't get where the snobbery thing comes in.

[quote Testingprof]@TypicalMe a Pornstar Martini has 2.3 units of alcohol (I choose a pornstar as it also has a shot of Prosecco so likely highly alcohol than another cocktail), a shot has 1.4 units. So actually 4 shots is more alcohol than 2 cocktails and also is right on the border of binge drinking for women. I do think it is an issue to be drinking at that level before the meal as I would assume that they would also have a glass of wine with the meal at the very least.[/quote]
A shot is one unit of alcohol, where are you getting 1.4 from?

I had two glasses of wine before dinner today, eating with friends and cooking dragged on a bit. We waited for a couple of hours for the food. I'm feeling fine. As long as it isn't every evening.