Page 8 | to think this shouldn't be normalised?

TypicaIMe · 20/03/2022 12:34

@ManateeFair

I see that, as always, the response from Mumsnet to a thread about whether binge-drinking is normalised has rapidly turned into people forecasting an epidemic of dipsomania on the grounds that “People on A Place In The Sun mention a enjoying a glass of wine now and again” and “characters in dramas drink a larger glass of wine than I personally would”.

I wouldn’t down shots before dinner, myself, because they’d go straight to my head and I’d feel ill pretty quickly. I do, however, get a lot of pleasure from a glass of wine or a cocktail or a nice cold pint after a long day and I’m highly amused that there are people who think that’s beyond the pale, or even care what other people do at home in the evening.

FWIW, my ex was an alcoholic and so is a close family member. Believe me, I can definitely tell the difference between an alcoholic and someone who enjoys a couple of glasses of wine or a couple of shots on a night out.

Absolutely.

My father was an alcoholic. When you've lived with an alcoholic, you know what problem drinking is.

A young person having a few shots on a night out, even if they do this a few times a month, isn't problem drinking. It's not alcoholism.

Neither is being aware of how much you drink and keeping within your own limits as I do - which another poster here has suggested represents an unhealthy attitude to alcohol.

I expect the posters who are horrified at four units of alcohol before dinner (or even two, because we don't know if she drank all four shots herself) are the same ones who would be horrified if that dinner contained over 500 calories and imagine that a massive salad is four lettuce leaves and a tomato, and should keep you going for days, and if it doesn't it's proof that there's an obesity epidemic.

Moderation in all things, let your hair down occasionally if that's your bag - this seems like a healthy, sane attitude to take. Not cat bum mouthing over a few drinks before dinner on a night out, and jumping to conclusions that it's evidence of a problem.

OhPumpkinuslappa · 20/03/2022 19:21

@dontblamemee

Anyone on MN who has more than a small sherry on Xmas day has a 'problem' 🙄

Love it

Teenagehorrorbag · 20/03/2022 22:23

@ChristinaRussell

I came across this Blind Date column in The Guardian from a couple of weeks ago: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/mar/05/blind-date-sam-jenn

Apparently ordering 4 shots before you even sit down to dinner means you're great fun. AIBU to think it actually means you might have a bit of a problem? I get so fed up with heavy drinking being equated with having a good personality and a good time, and if you don't want to get hammered you must be really dull.

For context, I do drink alcohol, but I don't particularly like being drunk, and I LOATHE hangovers - I really don't think that (for me) they are worth the night before.

I'm trying very hard not to come across as po-faced, and honestly, each to their own, but I know that some people I've come across in my life have thought I'm incredibly boring because I prefer not to get rat-arsed. I think, generally speaking, that this is a prevalent attitude in our society and it shouldn't be.

I'm now donning my hard hat in preparation for being told how boring and judgemental I am

Ooh I loved Flambards......

Testingprof · 21/03/2022 08:42

@Pyri
A shot is one unit of alcohol, where are you getting 1.4 from?

www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcohol-support/calculating-alcohol-units/

When friends have had shots they've not had 25ml, it was a minimum of 35ml so it would be 1.4 units over the 1 unit for 25ml.

@TypicaIMe
Having looked further at the cocktails you mentioned, they are both 2.4, if made to the recipe quoted on websites. 25ml of vermouth and 25ml of gin come out to 2 plus the liqueur would round it out to 2.4 for the Bijou.

Maisa45 · 21/03/2022 08:44

Yeah thjs sounds like something I would do and I do have a drinking problem.

Pyri · 21/03/2022 09:00

[quote Testingprof]@Pyri
A shot is one unit of alcohol, where are you getting 1.4 from?

www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcohol-support/calculating-alcohol-units/

When friends have had shots they've not had 25ml, it was a minimum of 35ml so it would be 1.4 units over the 1 unit for 25ml.

@TypicaIMe
Having looked further at the cocktails you mentioned, they are both 2.4, if made to the recipe quoted on websites. 25ml of vermouth and 25ml of gin come out to 2 plus the liqueur would round it out to 2.4 for the Bijou.[/quote]
25ml is the standard size shot, especially when pouring a G&T or similar (or at least it was when I used to run bars years ago)

Momicrone · 21/03/2022 09:18

If she can effectively carry on with her life and is generally fit and healthy, does it matter that she wants to consume a legal mind altering substance

Sitdownnext · 21/03/2022 14:36

@Pyri
Spirits used to be commonly served in 25ml measures, which are one unit of alcohol, many pubs and bars now serve 35ml or 50ml measures.

Kite22 · 21/03/2022 14:53

and I think this is some of the issue, both in the amounts some people drink, but also in threads about alcohol when people talk about 'a glass' or 'a drink'. When I was a young adult, if you had a glass of wine out, you had 125ml of 9% alcohol wine. Now it is 'usual' to have either 175ml, or 250ml as "a glass of wine" and the wine is likely to be 14% alcohol. Over an evening, those difference start to add up, but also people referring to "a couple of glasses" or " a couple of drinks" can be talking about very different alcohol consumption.

LadyEloise1 · 21/03/2022 14:57

I hate the "normalisation" of heavy drinking.
The wine o' clock thing.
I grew up in a loving home but my dad drank too much.
I hated when he was drunk.
He wasn't violent or anything but I just hated seeing him drunk. I still hate seeing people drunk.
At a football match recently and people were in and out buying drinks.
I don't get it !
They miss part of the match and disturb others.
The bars at a match should be closed during a match. Surely people can wait 40 minutes for a drink.
Concerts are spoiled for me by all the drunk people around.
I like a glass of wine or three but that's it.

Sitdownnext · 21/03/2022 15:11

I'd ban football! - it annoys me - why do people have to watch it in pubs - is a drink in your hand and good company not enough? - these people who watch football in pubs just ruin drinking for everyone else! 😁

Momicrone · 21/03/2022 15:26

Agree, hate football in pubs. Plenty of people drink and are pleasant, it's a real shame to be down on all drinkers because of individual life experiences.

Sitdownnext · 21/03/2022 16:45

I think going out with a non-drinker to the pub is a bit like going to a restaurant with a health-obsessed dieter who is very controlling over their food, they start with a soup - no bread of course, choosing the light option maybe steamed fish with veg and the fruit salad for afters, there's just something very uptight and joyless about the whole experience, it's saintly though - it shouldn't matter what someone else eats but it does - it just feels fecking miserable...the joy is in sharing an experience, the feasting and yes the overindulgence too! I'd rather eat dinner with someone who enjoys eating and I'd rather go to the pub with someone who likes a drink. And I'd rather go out with the woman from the blind date in the Guardian than most of the posters on this thread - you'd be too busy judging me.😂 I quite like tequila - I haven't done shots in quite a while though!

I meet my non-drinking friends for coffee and a walk, my friends don't all like to party but I'm bloody glad some of them do!

FirewomanSam · 21/03/2022 19:23

I think going out with a non-drinker to the pub is a bit like going to a restaurant with a health-obsessed dieter who is very controlling over their food, they start with a soup - no bread of course, choosing the light option maybe steamed fish with veg and the fruit salad for afters, there's just something very uptight and joyless about the whole experience, it's saintly though - it shouldn't matter what someone else eats but it does - it just feels fecking miserable...

That’s so depressing. I don’t drink alcohol and I bloody love pubs. I really hope none of my friends and family feel ‘fecking miserable’ going to the pub with me! I find it really really hard to understand how what’s in my glass and what goes down my throat has any bearing on someone else’s enjoyment. If I pretend my non-alcoholic pint is alcoholic or that there’s gin in my tonic water will people enjoy my company more?! That’s so sad.

Titsywoo · 21/03/2022 20:19

@Sitdownnext

I think going out with a non-drinker to the pub is a bit like going to a restaurant with a health-obsessed dieter who is very controlling over their food, they start with a soup - no bread of course, choosing the light option maybe steamed fish with veg and the fruit salad for afters, there's just something very uptight and joyless about the whole experience, it's saintly though - it shouldn't matter what someone else eats but it does - it just feels fecking miserable...the joy is in sharing an experience, the feasting and yes the overindulgence too! I'd rather eat dinner with someone who enjoys eating and I'd rather go to the pub with someone who likes a drink. And I'd rather go out with the woman from the blind date in the Guardian than most of the posters on this thread - you'd be too busy judging me.😂 I quite like tequila - I haven't done shots in quite a while though!

I meet my non-drinking friends for coffee and a walk, my friends don't all like to party but I'm bloody glad some of them do!

How ridiculous. Your friendships must be incredibly shallow. When I go out to the pub in a group usually some are drinking and some aren't. Makes no odds to the evening.

Kite22 · 21/03/2022 20:19

I think going out with a non-drinker to the pub is a bit like going to a restaurant with a health-obsessed dieter who is very controlling over their food, they start with a soup - no bread of course, choosing the light option maybe steamed fish with veg and the fruit salad for afters, there's just something very uptight and joyless about the whole experience, it's saintly though - it shouldn't matter what someone else eats but it does - it just feels fecking miserable...the joy is in sharing an experience, the feasting and yes the overindulgence too! I'd rather eat dinner with someone who enjoys eating and I'd rather go to the pub with someone who likes a drink.

That must be so limiting.
In the 40 years I've been going to the pub, there's always been people in the group who aren't drinking. Usually all the people who are driving. Sometimes people who choose not to drink. Sometimes people who are temporarily not drinking. I like lots of different alcoholic drinks, but I don't need them to be good company, and nor do my friends, or even other people I've been to the pub with on hundreds upon hundreds of occasions.

Allsorts1 · 21/03/2022 20:33

I’m a pretty big drinker on a night out and would definitely not ever order 4 shots of tequila before dinner!! Do you think he meant 2 rounds, so 2 shots each? Even that sounds 🤢🤢

Allsorts1 · 21/03/2022 20:35

@Sitdownnext totally agree. Probably me being OTT/sad but I once went to an Italian restaurant with a friend who wouldn’t drink so I had to drink it single glass of red wine alone and I honestly still haven’t recovered 😂

Calandor · 21/03/2022 21:06

Yeah I wouldn't like my date to order shots. I'd think they were trying to get me drunk... and that's nefarious.

FirewomanSam · 22/03/2022 07:26

I think going out with a non-drinker to the pub is a bit like going to a restaurant with a health-obsessed dieter who is very controlling over their food, they start with a soup - no bread of course, choosing the light option maybe steamed fish with veg and the fruit salad for afters, there's just something very uptight and joyless about the whole experience, it's saintly though - it shouldn't matter what someone else eats but it does - it just feels fecking miserable...

I’m coming back to this because it’s annoyed me so much. I’m not sober because I’m ‘saintly’, I’m sober because drinking was ruining my life. I don’t give a crap what other people do or don’t put in their bodies and I’m delighted for those who can have a joyful experience with alcohol, but that just isn’t me. Alcohol made me anxious, depressed and led me to injure myself on more than one occasion. It was affecting my job, my relationships and my health.

A friend who wanted me to put myself through that again just so that they could better enjoy their own drinking would be a pretty shit friend. I hate that so many drinkers seem to take non-drinking as a personal attack or judgment of their own behaviours. I promise you, most sober people don’t give a fuck what you do, just don’t try to make us do it with you! We all have our own reasons for not drinking and very few of us think we’re saints. Many of us don’t drink because we know we are very much NOT saintly when we drink!

I’m grateful none of my friends seem to have relegated me to ‘coffee and walks’ status since I stopped drinking. I still love a long pub lunch. I still get glammed up and go to amazing cocktail bars (thankfully bartenders always seem happy to mix me something delicious that happens not to be alcoholic) and I can still dance the night away with the best of them. I just no longer hate myself the next day!

Rhodora · 22/03/2022 08:05

I would never judge someone for choosing not to drink. A former work colleague of mine who was a non drinker would lecture us every Saturday and Monday morning about the evils of drink and how we were all irresponsible for choosing to drink. At the end of the day as long as it doesn’t affect your work, relationships and responsibilities choosing to drink or not is entirely your own affair.

DetailMouse · 22/03/2022 08:43

I have friends who drink and friends who don't drink. When I'm with the non drinkers I don't drink and we tend to do an activity rather than "just" socialise. I could have a drink when I'm with them, but I tend not to because tbh they're very judgemental of my "need" for a drink to enjoy myself. I don't need a drink I have a perfectly nice time without one, but I do enjoy one sometimes and TBH, yes the evening will be more fun. A sober evening will be enjoyable in different ways but it's not as much fun. The drinkers laugh a lot more IME. I don't know any non drinkers who will let their hair down, or even dance much at a party or stay much beyond 10:30pm, which is entirely their choice, but does change the evening.

Regardless, my own experience is that non drinkers are far more critical of drinkers than drinkers are of sober people.

FirewomanSam · 22/03/2022 14:38

Regardless, my own experience is that non drinkers are far more critical of drinkers than drinkers are of sober people.

I’m sure that’s the case for some sober people and I am not doubting it, but as a sober person I often find that I can’t talk about my own experiences without people interpreting it as an attack on them.

People ask me why I don’t drink and no matter what answer I give they will then start explaining to me why it doesn’t apply to them.

‘Drinking was making me miserable’
‘Well drinking doesn’t make me miserable, I really enjoy it, I love unwinding with a glass of wine’

‘I got really terrible hangovers’
‘Oh I don’t get hangovers, it’s never been a problem for me’

‘It was affecting my job’
‘Drinking has never affected my work, I manage fine’

Etc etc. I really don’t need to hear any of it, I genuinely don’t care if you drink or why you do it, but it’s very hard to talk about it at all without people getting defensive.

Sitdownnext · 22/03/2022 16:28

@FirewomanSam I really don’t need to hear any of it, I genuinely don’t care if you drink or why you do it, but it’s very hard to talk about it at all without people getting defensive. Totally get that - had much the same reaction when I told people I was veggie - only shared when going to their house for dinner - I just stopped telling people, I said it was too dull to go into (which it was - I had told the story too many times) but I know there were too many sanctimonious veggies who came before me and I had to pay for their sins - it was nothing personal.

Kite22 · 22/03/2022 18:16

I don't know any non drinkers who will let their hair down, or even dance much at a party or stay much beyond 10:30pm, which is entirely their choice, but does change the evening.

Perhaps you should widen your social circle then.
That is only a description of your friends, not my experience at all.