to think this shouldn't be normalised?

[ChristinaRussell]

I came across this Blind Date column in The Guardian from a couple of weeks ago: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/mar/05/blind-date-sam-jenn

Apparently ordering 4 shots before you even sit down to dinner means you're great fun. AIBU to think it actually means you might have a bit of a problem? I get so fed up with heavy drinking being equated with having a good personality and a good time, and if you don't want to get hammered you must be really dull.

For context, I do drink alcohol, but I don't particularly like being drunk, and I LOATHE hangovers - I really don't think that (for me) they are worth the night before.

I'm trying very hard not to come across as po-faced, and honestly, each to their own, but I know that some people I've come across in my life have thought I'm incredibly boring because I prefer not to get rat-arsed. I think, generally speaking, that this is a prevalent attitude in our society and it shouldn't be.

I'm now donning my hard hat in preparation for being told how boring and judgemental I am

Well if you drink faster you get more drunk I suppose

You don't get 'more drunk' if you drink faster. You may feel the effects sooner, but they also wear off sooner. There's not a greater alcohol content in one unit if it takes a few seconds to drink as opposed to half an hour to drink.

If you drink one unit per hour - your body will metabolize one unit per hour - you won't feel the effects so much. If you drink 4 units in 5 minutes - your body will be hit with 4 units in one go - the effects will be very different to 4 units consumed over 4 hours.

@TypicaIMe

Well if you drink faster you get more drunk I suppose

You don't get 'more drunk' if you drink faster. You may feel the effects sooner, but they also wear off sooner. There's not a greater alcohol content in one unit if it takes a few seconds to drink as opposed to half an hour to drink.

Of course you get more drunk ! 10 units consumed within an hour compared to 10 units over a week - so I exaggerate but you surely get the point. The wise suggestion to pace yourself whilst drinking is not just lip service.

Of course you get more drunk ! 10 units consumed within an hour compared to 10 units over a week - so I exaggerate but you surely get the point

Yes, you're exaggerating wildly. We're talking about four (or even two!) units before dinner. There is no equivalence whatsoever with ten units over a week/an hour.

I guess different strokes for different folks, it would be a turn off for me, I drink but never got into the whole shots thing, I like sipping my drink and enjoying it, but I know amongst a group of friends of mine that’s a normal thing.

@TypicaIMe

Of course you get more drunk ! 10 units consumed within an hour compared to 10 units over a week - so I exaggerate but you surely get the point

Yes, you're exaggerating wildly. We're talking about four (or even two!) units before dinner. There is no equivalence whatsoever with ten units over a week/an hour.

Sure I’m exaggerating because you seem to be really struggling to understand that 4 drinks taken in close succession produces a different effect to 4 drinks consumed slowly. I’ll give up now - you’ll be glad to hear!😂

@TheBigPeach

I guess different strokes for different folks, it would be a turn off for me, I drink but never got into the whole shots thing, I like sipping my drink and enjoying it, but I know amongst a group of friends of mine that’s a normal thing.

Yes I was just wondering if I’m alone in never having done shots. I was there in the 90s. Worked in a bar through college. Maybe that’s why!

@TypicaIMe Id don't see why you find this so difficult to understand, unless you are being deliberately obtuse.

If meeting someone for dinner, the general social expectation is that you have a drink, then have your dinner - at which point you would generally have some more to drink. Whether a person is getting their alcohol from shots or G&Ts or pints or any other drink, it is worrying that they need to order 4 drinks at this point. I would be if someone ordered that much alcohol at that point in the evening when we were meeting for a first date, yes.
As you can see from the thread, you are very much in the minority (here) about thinking it is fine.
However, you are proving the point of the OP that, in some circles, it seems this is considered normal, and the OP started the thread to ask if "we" (as in 'society' should be more worried about that.

I do find the fact that you said - when you were able to drink alcohol - you were "a stickler for the 14 Units of alcohol a week max" - like that is something to be proud of. You do realise that most of us don't even need to be counting / recording in that way as we don't get near that sort of limit (or 'target' ?) ?

[quote Kite22]@TypicaIMe Id don't see why you find this so difficult to understand, unless you are being deliberately obtuse.

If meeting someone for dinner, the general social expectation is that you have a drink, then have your dinner - at which point you would generally have some more to drink. Whether a person is getting their alcohol from shots or G&Ts or pints or any other drink, it is worrying that they need to order 4 drinks at this point. I would be if someone ordered that much alcohol at that point in the evening when we were meeting for a first date, yes.
As you can see from the thread, you are very much in the minority (here) about thinking it is fine.
However, you are proving the point of the OP that, in some circles, it seems this is considered normal, and the OP started the thread to ask if "we" (as in 'society' should be more worried about that.

I do find the fact that you said - when you were able to drink alcohol - you were "a stickler for the 14 Units of alcohol a week max" - like that is something to be proud of. You do realise that most of us don't even need to be counting / recording in that way as we don't get near that sort of limit (or 'target' ?) ?[/quote]
Oooh, that's a condescending post

I'll bite.

If meeting someone for dinner, the general social expectation is that you have a drink, then have your dinner

No, that's your expectation. I wouldn't think a couple of g&ts was OTT before dinner, particularly if it's a one off (and we have no reason to believe this wasn't a one off).

it is worrying that they need to order 4 drinks at this point

There's nothing to suggest all four shots were for her, just that she ordered them. She might have shared them with her date. Two units of alcohol before dinner is not excessive. It's a double gin and tonic, or a glass of wine. The equivalent of a drink, which you yourself have said is the general social expectation.

you are proving the point of the OP that, in some circles, it seems this is considered normal

Of course it's normal, if you drink alcohol, to have a couple of drinks before you have dinner on a night out.

I do find the fact that you said - when you were able to drink alcohol - you were "a stickler for the 14 Units of alcohol a week max" - like that is something to be proud of. You do realise that most of us don't even need to be counting / recording in that way as we don't get near that sort of limit (or 'target' ?)

This doesn't even begin to make sense. I very rarely drank over ten units, simply because I don't like feeling at all drunk - I'd have maybe a cocktail on a Friday evening, and a good whisky after dinner on a Saturday. I wasn't counting or recording. I just knew that I didn't want to feel drunk and I knew my limits. Unless you're suggesting that not wanting to feel drunk and being aware of your limits is suggestive of an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, I'm not sure what your point is?

Even at times when I was having a little more (for example, Christmas, when I'd have a few glasses of champagne) I'd never go over 14 units.

My dear Sil has a drink problem and is in denial - I find I’m more often choosing alcohol free drinks with meals and at home partner and I don’t drink alcohol very often at all - it’s out me right off alcohol BUT I keep seeing drink induced stupor behaviour on social media being glamourised - wtaf?!
If you can enjoy one or two that’s great but it’s not compulsory and I’m fed up with people thinking non drinkers are boring - I am up for a good time but not up for drink driving, forgetting what I’ve done and hangovers !!!!!
Do what you feel is right for YOU xxx

I'm in my 70s and drink so little that my medical records say teetotal (a sip for a toast at a wedding, maybe)
I don't think I'm boring, can have a laugh, etc.. I have friends whom I've known since the 1960s, and they all drink. I've noticed that as the years have passed the amounts they drink has increased. I wonder if that's why when we talk about the place we all worked in when we met, they comment on how much I remember, compared to them?
I think that the current drink/drugs climate will cause many problems in the future. My friends didn't take drugs, and didn't drink much when we were young. it gradually built up from their fifties, so 20 years. Imagine if they'd started in their teens or twenties?

I agree on the one hand. I find it so odd when middle aged people brag about their heavy drinking. I always feel young people are just learning. But in her real we have a ridiculous relationship with alcohol in this country. It’s sad and obviously unhealthy. However maybe this was just a one off because they were going to be in the paper.

I rarely drink, and find the social pressure to get hammered and have a 'good time' ridiculous. How does needing to be drunk to have fun equate to not being drunk meaning you're dull? Surely, if you need to down multiple shots to be fun then it's actually you that's dull? I can dance on tables stone cold sober.

That kind of heavy drinking is incredibly unhealthy, but it's so socially acceptable to reach for the booze, 'mummy needs wine' or "I need a drink" and 'pass the prosecco' like it's all just harmless. It's really not. I'm so tired of it

I agree with you about wishing they would stop normalising not drinking = dull.

I used to drink massively to excess from the age of 14-22ish. Only on nights out, but to be fair I went on several nights out a week. And it's put me right off, I hate feeling out of control, I hate the fact I forget things that everyone else remembers me doing...I just hate it. The hangovers almost always make me sick (or I puke on the night instead, or as well). Essentially I cannot handle alcohol and don't know when to stop once I hit a certain point, and that point is literally about 3 drinks. If I'm bervous I'll drink more so never drink on work does or anything so they make me anxious so I drink more than I should.

I always get weird looks or called boring. It makes me skip social functions entirely sometimes, depending on who will be there, based on the reactions I know I'll get.

I know my experience isn't typical for many people, but it is really annoying to be branded dull just because I don't want to drink to excess

I agree. I’d often have one G&T before a date but I’d never arrive drunk. I did have a guy turn up wasted once, he was an absolute embarrassment and I never saw him again.

Husband and I drink every weekend and I don’t see a problem as we only tend to drink in the house. I did however fall out with a work colleague over this. Her father died of alcohol poisoning and as a result she never drinks and she thought this gave her the right to lecture everyone else about the evils of drink. My argument was that we choose to drink in the house and there for our choice does not impact anyone else. At the moment we have no children just two cats and so as long as we can meet all our work and financial commitments why should anyone else bother/worry. A couple of drinks before a meal I would not view as a huge thing but everybody has a different alcohol tolerance level and a different level of acceptance.

Alcohol makes you paranoid which is ironic seeing as so many people here insist drinkers think they are boring for not drinking.

Newsflash: Most drinkers don't notice you're not drinking - they really don't.

I drink alcohol but sometimes don't at social events - particularly work-related social events which are never entirely social. It is a positive advantage not to drink at work events. At many of the work events I go to people compete not to drink because to be sober at all times is to be in control. I accept it but it's not my idea of a relaxing evening.

I rarely encounter pressure to drink alcohol and if I do I do not worry about whether people think I'm boring or cool because I am not 15.

I sometimes choose not to drink alcohol. Work events definitely but also at social events when the alcohol is not to my taste. That's another weird thing on this thread - that some people assume drinkers drink anything just to get smashed. That says more about their relationship with alcohol than mine. I'm picky. If there is nothing in the narrow band of my preferred alcoholic drinks I will not hit the hand gel but will drink water.

If not drinking alcohol I notice the most pressure not from drinkers who accept it and probably think it cuts down the cost of their round but from people who want to force non alcoholic drinks on me.

They are the ones most likely to say my choice of water is boring and pressure me to have a lovely elderflower presse or a Coke - especially at parties where they want me to have a good time and have bought it in specially to make sure.

If you or anyone else feels your friends are judging you about your preference not to drink alcohol you are probably thinking too much about it. If they are then get different friends.

Hmmm having thought about it I think shots are something I associate with youth culture, so I’d be concerned that they were a bit immature which would put me off.

Despite having the same alcohol content, 2 cocktails or large g&ts don’t seem the same because you don’t knock them back like shots. Shots are to get you drunk quickly.

My said told me our cousins find me boring unless I'm drunk well bad luck to them, I have not been drunk for over 20 years, my limit these days is 1-2 drinks. These cousins get together 3-4 times a week and ring each other daily. Every get together they drink, all drive home with their kids in the car, me I rarely drank when my son was with me and don't drive due to medical and health reason.

Did I read a different article to you? The fact he bought up her drinking more than once and tried to play it off suggested to me that he really wasn’t that impressed by it. He counted her tequilas and her espresso martinis so clearly it bothered him.

@Palegreenstars

More importantly I think it’s rude to stay on a date with someone and give them a ‘6’

Also she was a bit rude to express disappointment about his height

I see that, as always, the response from Mumsnet to a thread about whether binge-drinking is normalised has rapidly turned into people forecasting an epidemic of dipsomania on the grounds that “People on A Place In The Sun mention a enjoying a glass of wine now and again” and “characters in dramas drink a larger glass of wine than I personally would”.

I wouldn’t down shots before dinner, myself, because they’d go straight to my head and I’d feel ill pretty quickly. I do, however, get a lot of pleasure from a glass of wine or a cocktail or a nice cold pint after a long day and I’m highly amused that there are people who think that’s beyond the pale, or even care what other people do at home in the evening.

FWIW, my ex was an alcoholic and so is a close family member. Believe me, I can definitely tell the difference between an alcoholic and someone who enjoys a couple of glasses of wine or a couple of shots on a night out.

@Joenlivsmom

Did I read a different article to you? The fact he bought up her drinking more than once and tried to play it off suggested to me that he really wasn’t that impressed by it. He counted her tequilas and her espresso martinis so clearly it bothered him.

Didn't bother him so much that he continued the date after dinner!

If meeting someone for dinner, the general social expectation is that you have a drink, then have your dinner

I am not sure there is one single social expectation applying to every sort of dinner. Most formal dinners I have been to will have a champagne reception which you sip at. Meeting up with friends or family most people I know don't drink before dinner and don't drink loads during dinner though sometimes chatting might go into small hours, with spirits.

Going back to point of thread, I have seen other things about shots before dinner for first dates, and I have also read on MN about OLD where a lot of men say that "being able to let your hair down" is seen as a positive feature, thinking about it.

Maybe the answer is to set up a new OLD site for people who drink but not much.

I think stamina, capacity enzymes are all relevant here as well as knowing your limits. My assumption is that someone who works in a professional capacity who orders a few shots knows they can drink a few shots without getting more than mildly tipsy. If you rarely drink, a few shots will affect you more, and affect you differently. I realise this sounds obvious, but some of the posters assume that someone drinking a few shots is going to be drunk or boring or misbehaving and that isn't necessarily the case, I don't think.

I said upthread that drinking a lot was common in my profession, but no one at my firm drank at lunch and returned to work - they'd have been booted out if they had. No one drank to the point of throwing up or saying things they shouldn't or having black outs. In relation to knowing your limits, people wouldn't drink if they had meetings the next day or a lot of work to get out - which was common. Though I did know one guy who could go out partying most of the night and then turn up at meetings fresh as a daisy, but he was somewhat unusual!