to think this shouldn't be normalised?

[ChristinaRussell]

I came across this Blind Date column in The Guardian from a couple of weeks ago: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/mar/05/blind-date-sam-jenn

Apparently ordering 4 shots before you even sit down to dinner means you're great fun. AIBU to think it actually means you might have a bit of a problem? I get so fed up with heavy drinking being equated with having a good personality and a good time, and if you don't want to get hammered you must be really dull.

For context, I do drink alcohol, but I don't particularly like being drunk, and I LOATHE hangovers - I really don't think that (for me) they are worth the night before.

I'm trying very hard not to come across as po-faced, and honestly, each to their own, but I know that some people I've come across in my life have thought I'm incredibly boring because I prefer not to get rat-arsed. I think, generally speaking, that this is a prevalent attitude in our society and it shouldn't be.

I'm now donning my hard hat in preparation for being told how boring and judgemental I am

@Thoosa

If I went on a first date with some who downed four shots in succession before we’d even been seated to eat, I’d judge the fuck out of them whether they were a man on woman. In fact, I’d leave.

Yup.

Would you judge them if they 'downed' a couple of pints/g&ts or a cocktail before dinner?

Yup. Less so, as a pint, or a large G&T would be (normally) drunk socially over 30 mins or more, whilst you were chatting, not downed in 2 seconds with then a great empty space with no drink.

Would you judge them if they 'downed' a couple of pints/g&ts or a cocktail before dinner?

Borderline.

Downing is different from drinking.

Some drinks are pretty much just for getting drunk (shots, chasers) and some are for savouring. Cocktails a bit of both?

With a date you’re looking for compatibility. On a first date you’re looking for best behaviour.

Obviously when I was 19 my answers would have been totally different.

I read the article and I thought they both wanted to make the most of a free meal so I wouldn't assume the amount they drank was normal for them.

There is a heavy drinking culture in the UK but actually I think things are changing. When I was young it was quite normal to go to the pub at lunchtime when working. Now it seems really rare, even pre the pandemic. Pubs at lunchtime aim to attract the retired or people coming to eat but not to drink alcohol. The number of young people who don't drink or rarely drink is also increasing.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/10/young-people-drinking-alcohol-study-england

Lots of people do dry January too.

I think the UK's alcohol problem is not so much the number of units per week that are drunk than the binge drinking culture.

@ChristinaRussell i'm 57 too. I find it even odder that we are the same age and you worry about what other people do that doesn't affect you or worry about what people think of you.

Why does it matter how long it takes to drink, though? It's still the same amount of alcohol, as has already been mentioned on this thread. Why is 'savouring' alcohol socially acceptable but drinking it quickly isn't, when it's the same amount?

In my experience the biggest drinkers are in their 40s/50s. Young people don't drink like they did when I was in my 20s (I'm 49). None of DD's friends drink, nor does she, and they're not unusual. They see their mums drinking their gin and their dads with their craft beer or whatever and it's seriously uncool - who wants to do what their parents do at that age?!

What's genuinely worrying though is that smoking seems to be making a bit of a return among the younger people I know. Again, their parents have all given up and are quite anti smoking - maybe it's become rebellious again, like it was when I had my first cigarette aged 14.

@mimi0708

Completely agree with you OP. It seem to be the norm here that you have to drink to have fun. I have alcohol allergy and really struggled in my old workplace as every social activity we had was centred around drinking!!

I drink but have rarely liked the places my work colleagues wanted to drink in. They weren't dens of iniquity, they just weren't the type of place I liked.

It probably did hold me back from some forms of advancement because I didn't socialise with them but if they'd have chosen to go to a Starbucks I'd have been excluded because I don't want to sit around after work drinking coffee. And people did used to do that but mid morning or lunchtimes. I didn't want to go so I didn't.

@TypicaIMe

Why does it matter how long it takes to drink, though? It's still the same amount of alcohol, as has already been mentioned on this thread. Why is 'savouring' alcohol socially acceptable but drinking it quickly isn't, when it's the same amount?

I'd say it's pretty obvious.

If you drink quickly, then you are simply drinking to get drunk. No other reason. If I see someone necking shots, avoid them, because they will be a total drunken pain in the arse before long.

If you drink slowly, you may well not be aiming to get drunk at all.

I don’t think it’s being normalised especially? It’s just a factual record of what this woman did on the date.

In general I think people (or certainly professional MC people of this age) drink less than they would have done 20 years ago.

@TypicaIMe

Why does it matter how long it takes to drink, though? It's still the same amount of alcohol, as has already been mentioned on this thread. Why is 'savouring' alcohol socially acceptable but drinking it quickly isn't, when it's the same amount?

Drunk people are fun to be around when you’re drunk, but for everyone else they’re a PITA.

Obviously not a widely appreciated fact.

@Pyri

IT SAYS SHE ORDERED FOUR SHOTS IT DOESNT SAY SHE DRANK ALL FOUR, TWO WERE PROBABLY FOR HIM

Feel I need to shout this for those in the back

Thank goodness you did! Why do the majority think she drank them all herself?

Clearly she arrived at the bar, said hello to her date, ordered 4 shots, sat down with him, shoved 2 across the table to him and said something like “Right, let’s get this Dutch courage down us!”. Harmless fun.

@iseeu

I see that the woman in the article is a lawyer, not a shock!

HE is the lawyer. It says she is an HR manager.

@TypicaIMe

Why does it matter how long it takes to drink, though? It's still the same amount of alcohol, as has already been mentioned on this thread. Why is 'savouring' alcohol socially acceptable but drinking it quickly isn't, when it's the same amount?

It's quite worrying that you can't see that /don't know that.

If you are meeting someone for dinner, it is a social norm to have a drink together for 1/2 an hour or so, before you eat. The drink might, or might not contain alcohol, but it is generally a drink that will last you the period of time up until dinner.
People only drink shots to try to get drunk. That seems a weird thing to want to do on a first date when you are wanting to get to know someone.
Clearly there is a huge difference between wanting to down the same quantity of alcohol in 2 seconds from the next person who is happy to take in the same amount of alcohol in 30mins or more.

The article is not normalising anything and it's all so irrelevant to you supposedly being called boring for not having a drink. My partner doesn't drink and manages to get through life without it causing any drama, and he's never been called boring for it. I do drink but not often and when I don't it hasn't caused any issues for me. Again, never been called boring for it. Some people just need to get better company/friends, or maybe some people are just boring. 🤷‍♀️

Such a weird thread.

The newspaper isn’t normalising the drinking. The detail about four shots of tequila has been chosen as the pull quote precisely because that is not normal. If she had turned up with a flowerpot on her head then they would have used that instead and we could all have been treated to a strange thread about the ways in which young people are abusing terracotta.

My heart would sink if somebody did that before dinner. I'd know I was in for a night of long repetitive stories. I love having a drink but if someone is on a blind date and drinking like that from the start then I would bet anything they'd be boring.

Most shots don't really exist for people to enjoy what's in them. They are a vehicle for getting drunk quickly. If I go out with someone I want to be able to have a reasonable conversation with them which won't happen if they are out for that kind of night. I'd probably not have a fun time under those circumstances.

Would depend on the timeframe they were had in- 4 shots in a short period of time would put me off someone- if I've never met them before, why are they going all out on the booze from the start, and how are they going to be for the rest of the night? I'd feel the same about 4 anything if they were being drunk at breakneck speed. I enjoy a drink, would happily have one. But if I'm meeting someone for the first time, I'd hope we would be having a conversation instead of just getting hammered from the outset.

Isn’t the fact that it’s the headline proof that it’s not being normalised? i.e they’ve selected this tidbit because it’s a bit bloody weird?

@TypicaIMe

In my experience the biggest drinkers are in their 40s/50s. Young people don't drink like they did when I was in my 20s (I'm 49). None of DD's friends drink, nor does she, and they're not unusual. They see their mums drinking their gin and their dads with their craft beer or whatever and it's seriously uncool - who wants to do what their parents do at that age?!

What's genuinely worrying though is that smoking seems to be making a bit of a return among the younger people I know. Again, their parents have all given up and are quite anti smoking - maybe it's become rebellious again, like it was when I had my first cigarette aged 14.

My kids are students and the drinking culture is still very much there but it has changed. They drink before they go out. They rarely buy a drink to sit with, they drink shots when they go out because they feel they are safer - more difficult to spike a drink, they drink for the buzz. They don’t tend to go to the pub and they prefer to have a soft drink with their food. Smoking is most definitely not cool and not making a comeback. Although a few kids started at their school around 14, they were not seen as aspiring cool kids.

@Kite22

It's not 'worrying' at all.

I don't drink anymore (apart from the very occasional measure of whisky or glass of wine, as a treat) because I'm in medication which prevents it. Before that I was a stickler for the 14 units a week thing, max. My relationship with alcohol is fine, if you were implying otherwise.

Two hours, say, later, the person who drank four shots and the person who drank two pints will not be any drinker than each other. In fact by the time that pint person has finished their pints, shots person will be about the same as them, drunk-wise - not that four units is enough to get anyone drunk.

The bottom line is, having four units of alcohol before dinner (or in this case, possibly two - we only know that she ordered four, not that they were all for her) doesn't make you an alcoholic/problem drinker. Any more than ordering a pizza and eating it by yourself makes you obese.

Unless you do both every day, of course - and to be honest, loads of people would find it perfectly socially acceptable to have a couple of glasses of wine before dinner daily, despite that clearly being far more of an issue than four (or possibly two!) shots on a night out.

I suppose two shots when you first arrive is no different to having a large glass of wine as a loosener while you get ready? At least not in terms of the alcohol content.

@DetailMouse

I suppose two shots when you first arrive is no different to having a large glass of wine as a loosener while you get ready? At least not in terms of the alcohol content.

Well if you drink faster you get more drunk I suppose?

[quote HaveringWavering]@iseeu

I see that the woman in the article is a lawyer, not a shock!

HE is the lawyer. It says she is an HR manager.[/quote]
Sorry, you are right!