for not choosing a flat with a garden for children

[whatsay11]

AIBU to think children do not need a garden as they grow up? My husband and I really can’t agree on such a minor issue. Bearing in mind he knows so little about raising kids anyway. e.g. he was surprised when I told him how many nappies a newborn will get through! He believes that a child needs a garden. I am 3 months’ pregnant. Both of the flats are in our budget. Sadly v expensive as we have to live in London. We are currently renting a 1 bedroom flat on the second floor of a Victorian terrace with awful upstairs neighbours, I’m worried about our baby as they have loud parties and smoke weed etc. we need to move quickly.

Flat 1 £550k
Downstairs flat in a semi-detached Victorian house. Two small double bedrooms, one bathroom with a bath, living/dining/kitchen in one room and a small garden with no grass…only stones.

Flat 2 £600k
Upstairs flat in a semi-detached Victorian house. One normal flight upstairs from the main shared front door. Split level as there is a loft conversion. Three double bedrooms, two bathrooms, separate living/dining room and kitchen.

Both properties are about a 20 minute walk away from several parks and in good school catchment areas. Thoughts?

Where I am in Z3 there are 3 bed houses with sizeable gardens in your budget. We have a playground at the end of the road, and another a 10 minute walk away which adjoins acres of green space. All the local primaries are outstanding or good and there is a strong community feel. The compromise is being a little further from the tube but it’s the best line in London so the extra minutes getting there balance out.

If I were you, I’d look further afield as neither flat sounds that appealing to live in with kids.

To answer your specific question - I don’t think a garden is essential, but if you’re spending such a lot on a home, shouldn’t it be more than just the essentials?

Honestly if you can you need A garden. You won't stay long in either flat if you had more than one child despite what you think now. A baby in a flat is easy ....a toddler less so. Throw another child into the mix and lots of toys and you be climbing the walls. I'd go for flat 1 now and plan to move again in a few years.

I'm put off the garden by the stones. They are really dangerous with small children and the garden becomes bit of a hazard - DD was really keen to put the decorative stones in her mouth (we ended up fencing off the gravel path at the side of our house to prevent this). In general I think kids need outside space, but if the space isn't usable then look at what's around like parks etc.
I think a 3 bed with separate living space will be better for multiple children. And get a very compact pram!

A garden isn't essential, lots and lots of families live in flats with no outside space and live more than one story up. I'd get the bigger flat.

If you want three kids (which may well change after the reality of having one) I'd move out to an area where you can afford a house nearer to in-laws (though again there are so many threads on mumsnet about in laws and aging parents changing their mind on babysitting duties after second child is born as if becomes to much).

If your parents own in Notting Hill then they are sitting on a goldmine and could sell up and move closer to you if they need to.

Take a look at the Cannon Hill area of Morden. Very leafy and green.

If your parents own in Notting Hill then they are sitting on a goldmine and could sell up and move closer to you if they need to.

This. You are having to compromise for parents who are in an enormously privileged position.

You’re husband needs to get real. You can’t afford his tastes so you need to compromise. Is he actually engaged in the work (including emotional labour) of house hunting? He’s coming across as someone who hasn’t been exposed to enough of the reality.

We have a similar set up to Flat 1 - split level, first and second floors, shared entrance. We do have a small garden we can access from our kitchen via a set of steps though.

I’d strongly advise against it! Garden debate aside, living up a flight of stairs with a pram is a real pain in every way. Even if there was space in the shared hallway and the neighbours agreed to storing a pram there (not the case for us) you’d still have to lift the baby out of it, take him or her up the stairs, if it’s winter, remove their layers, leave them somewhere safe, and then come back down to pick up whatever else you might have in the pram - and possibly fold the pram. That’s even without the extra step of then bringing the pram upstairs (if you have to do that). If the baby nods off in the pram, as they often do, you can’t just wheel them in and let them sleep whilst you sort yourself out. You have to disturb them every time - cue sometimes a very grumpy baby.
We’re expecting number 2 and looking to move ASAP, as I don’t think it would be doable at all with two children.

in terms of the variables you list, my list of priorities would be:

1. having enough indoor space (measured by square footage, not number of bedrooms - you can cut the same pizza into 16 rather than 8 slices, but this won't make it bigger);

2. not living up stairs without a lift;

3. having a garden.

of course other things such as the area etc can be as or more important than the above.

my advice to you, as others have said, would be to go a little bit further south-west & get a small three bed terraced house that's within budget.

There is not a chance in hell I'd go for either of these expensive, clearly unsuitable and undesirable properties to indulge my ridiculously fussy partner.

I did a downstairs flat with no private garden and it was difficult to store scooters/bikes/footballs as they got bigger.

The garden to me is a bit of extra storage area - you can put the buggy out there, clothes rack so it is out the way. Not sure I could go back to no garden (and ours is small)

Downstairs is also good for now worrying if their running around is annoying the downstairs neighbours!

I'd get the bigger one, but you will find yourself going to the park most days in the summer, especially if more than one child! There's a reason properties with outside space were so desirable in the wake of covid and lock downs. Being inside with two or more boisterous kids is a major headache, and getting them all ready to go out is a PITA . Also as pp pointed out - dealing with stairs with one child is fine, more (and is there room to leave a pushchair downstairs?) and those stairs will soon become the bane of your life.
So, I'd go with the bigger flat now but I think you will be moving sooner than you think if you have another child.
The ground floor flat seems barely big enough for one baby, not big enough for two and the small outside space not good enough to make up for not having a third bedroom or more living space.

Tech you can add fake grass to the stoned garden for a few thousand drowning on size

How big /small is garden @whatsay11 in first flat

I do agree with hubby that a garden is essential

Yes many will say they survive without one but spending half a million plus on a hole that doesn’t have one is insane , esp if move slightly away and get more for money

*home

And I’m in the south east so know prices are insane

Neither.
1st is too small for 2 kids.
2nd is too inconvenient for any kids. How are you going to get a baby and a pushchair and your shopping upstairs? Then when you've got multiple kids? No thanks.

And a 20 minute walk to and from a park with 2-3 young kids? That is not going to a 20 minute walk and it is going to be hell.

If you don't have a garden you need a park within less than 5 minutes walk ideally.

Although being from the NE I cannot get in the mindset of spending half a million pounds on a flat.
Our house was 100k. Big three bedroom, good sized garden, 2 minute walk from a huge park with play area and skate park and ice cream shop, 1 minute walk to outstanding primary school. I could sell this and put a deposit down on a 2nd floor flat with no garden a 25 minute walk away from a park? Okidoki.

It’s horrible not having a garden for my babies first year I was in a ground floor flat with no garden .. I absolutely hated it. Even being on the ground floor I’d have to lug everything in put the baby in the pushchair pile it with all the shopping and through all the communal doors to get to my flat. I’m in a 2 bed house now with a garden and it is amazing to be able to just park up outside my front door and get everything in.
If your having 2-3 kids you will hate it and it will be really hard , if your getting a two bed will they all be sharing a bedroom too that will be hard??

If I was you I’d move to an area close by where you can get a house with a garden. Can’t you just commute into London everyday if it’s for work?

Move somewhere you can actually afford a proper house with that money - it will buy a semi with a nice garden in Sutton (15 min train to Wimbledon) or look at do-er uppers in Morden. Ludicrous to consider effectively overcrowded accommodation because you won't look outside a postcode.

If I were you I'd look for a flat that has either a garden or a balcony, a lift and a park or even a small playground very near. People all over the world bring up children in flats, you don't NEED a garden, but the flat needs to actually be well set up for communal living and family life. Many in the UK aren't, but maybe London has more choice?

Ludicrous to consider effectively overcrowded accommodation because you won't look outside a postcode.

Yes. What you seem to be overlooking is the quality of your life. Particularly yours, OP, as it seems you'll be the one spending most time in your home.

I understand the issues of the commute for your husband and the closeness to your parents. But just extending your search area a little, would presumably only add a little inconvenience, while adding a massive amount to the quality of life for you and your children.

Ten years in either of those flats, with two or three children, sounds absolutely miserable to me. I agree with your DH about a garden, but I think that some of his other demands are unfair. Kerb appeal in preference to ease and quality of life for his wife and kids? Really?

Bearing in mind he knows so little about raising kids anyway.

I think this is the crux of it. I think he has no idea. And I am not sure having seen the flats that you have that you do either.

Yes of course you could raise kids in those properties. IF YOU NEEDED TO. You dont. Your budget would buy you a much more child friendly family house if you ditched the idea of Curb Appeal and branched out a little.

Im in Cheam area and 40 minutes from St Georges via Bus and Tube which is a perfectly reasonable commute so he should branch out on that a little.

Having children (especially 2-3) sadly is all about the compromise and I think it starts here

Garden every time. There are days when they start to be more independent when they amuse themselves outside for ages in a small sandpit or water trough.

As a single mum those times have been priceless when I just wanted to stay home and get chores done or just sit after a crazy work week.

@Gizacluethen comments like that don’t help- everyone knows london is expensive. There’s no need to be rude. I’m sure your 100K house doesn’t have the amenities and culture close by that london has.
OP I second Sutton. I have friends who commute to St. George’s from there and it’s fine.

[quote Strawmite]@Gizacluethen comments like that don’t help- everyone knows london is expensive. There’s no need to be rude. I’m sure your 100K house doesn’t have the amenities and culture close by that london has.
OP I second Sutton. I have friends who commute to St. George’s from there and it’s fine.[/quote]
Absolutely, we don't have culture in the north east. Any time any artistic or intellectual pursuits take place, they migrate independently to London. There's nothing we can do about it.