Ashamed to be british

[beachcitygirl]

Despite the bombing of a maternity hospital by Putin.
Today we find out exactly what Ukrainians need to do to gain asylum in the UK.

1. Create an online account - on the home office website & fill in a lengthy and detailed application form.
2. Upload proof that their qualifying family member has permanent residence status in the UK - they suggest a copy of the home office vignette embedded in the passport
3. Upload proof of residence in the UKraine for a full year

4.Provide and upload proof of familial relationship with the family member. Birth certificates & marriage certificates of all concerned. 5.Make sure all documents are translated into English before uploading 6.Book and attend an IN-PERON appointment at a home office visa application centre in Poland, Hungary, Romania or France. So that officials can take biometrics and copies of all documents already uploaded. The booking system for appointment frequently crashes & the next available appointment as of today is in two weeks time - at any of the venues

1. Get a tuberculosis vaccination & certificate - have it translated & upload

8.wait at SAME address while home office workers in the UK assess. Be available for phone or zoom interview.

In a fucking war zone. I despair. I truly despair & despise this government with all my heart. Patel is a sociopath & Johnson an idiot.

I'm ashamed 😓

@Kendodd apologies - it looks like I'm having a go at you. I realise you're quoting. Sorry x

Why not move then to another country if you're that ashamed?
What are you doing to actually help,physically?financially?
Enough moaning there's too much of it especially by people doing nothing themselves except the odd email.

I am not white but i am british and i didnt take offence to minicoopers post.
I actually find it interesting that i have experience far more racism in Eastern European counties than here in the uk.

@UnderwriterOption

1. I was quoting Victoria Derbyshire
2. The final "in a war zone" paragraph does not refer to the waiting for approval part only ( maybe stop selectively reading)
3. My point (and seemingly Ms Derbyshire's ) was that expecting all of this palaver from people fleeing a war zone is off the scale ludicrous & inhumane.

Where are they going to access the Internet, photocopiers, documents whilst hiding in bomb shelters or fleeing their neighbourhood with the clothes on their back.

@MiniCooper15

It's standard for refuges with brown or black skin. Haven't heard much complaints about this previously.

Came to say exactly the same thing when people voted brexit to close our borders and didn't we to re home Afghans.

Afghanistan and palestine etc all forgotten. People love the hype of a new story but literally forget the next day. That's embarrassing.

I suggest you read your own post back.

@KarmaStar

Why not move then to another country if you're that ashamed? What are you doing to actually help,physically?financially? Enough moaning there's too much of it especially by people doing nothing themselves except the odd email.

Because it's my home & how the hell would you know what I'm doing or not doing. Are you aware this is a chat room site? And that quite a lot of the posts (if not most) are "commenting, moaning, worrying" Did you log on to this site in error ?

[quote beachcitygirl]@UnderwriterOption you're simply wrong.
Secondly some of us are intelligent enough to two things at once.
For example I'm naturally empathetic & politically active so I choose to emote & campaign (all at once) you should try it sometime
As for refugee form filling at the moment in a war zone. My preferred option. Get here or anywhere you have family or friend to assist &'we'll worry about paperwork later when you're safe.
That's what we should be doing.

[/quote]
But they aren't applying from war zones. They are applying from wherever they have fled to.

Think of it this way - why are you suggesting that these brand new refugees be given priority and special treatment over the people who have been living in camps for 20 years? They also fled, and are now waiting to go somewhere else or be able to go home one day.

How do you justify helping the new Ukrainian refugees first, before addressing the situation of such people?

But then, when you realize there is an almost endless supply of such people, many with complex needs and very difficult to settle in a new place, you begin to see the problem.

No, I'm not ashamed. I'm angry at many policies pushed by this government but I didn't vote for them so no shame from me. I also think that largely the U.K. is a pretty great place to live - hence so many wanting to come and make a life here.

@cornflakedreams

What kind of fucked up logic is it to say that because we fucked up in the past we can't or shouldn't expect better now?

Raise your standards.

This exactly but that doesn’t fit the @MiniCooper15 mindset and agenda !!

im not saying that in any bad way about the current situation in ukraine-I care as much as everyone else about what is happening there it is truly horrific and I am so sad for their people. I agree the immigration system is unfair in their circumstances
Everyone is so quick to put down the uk.

But they aren't applying from war zones. They are applying from wherever they have fled to.

I don’t think OP is very logical @MangyInseam - we are banging our heads against a brick wall.

I do wish people would see that overstating the situation and emoting undermines important arguments.

@Ambushedbycakeinmydreams

Me too. But apparently this is the treatment for refugees / immigrants that the majority of British people wanted.

This.

The Brexit vote was about keeping people out apparently. Some people don't like refugees or any new people coming to the country despite what they are fleeing from. Inhumane.

There are still people on my mps nasty constituents group. I’ve been arguing with one this morning. Needless to say my post about the situation is still “pending awaiting approval”
Crack den Ben removes anyone who doesn’t agree with his principles of refugees are nasty scroungers, boat people deserve to die on the sea etc though he minces his words better than forage. , oh and we should be going back to coal amd fracking not trying to sort green energy.

I’ve never been more ashamed of my government. Some people genuinely don’t get it because they got fed russias lies over the last number of years. Some people are just selfish gits.

Oh fuck off OP, I’m just about fed up of these handwringing posts slating Britain. Clear off if you don’t like it. We are probably the most welcoming country in Europe for immigrants which is why so many wish to live and prosper here. We have immigrants from all over the world. Open borders do nobody any favours. The UK is about as far from Ukraine as you can get and still be in Europe so it’s entirely understandable that neighboring countries are seeing the majority of refugees. Surely most want to return to their home? We cannot just throw open the doors and allow unlimited migration. The queues would literally never end and I’m not sure our schools, hospitals or housing stock can take much more pressure.

I don't get being ashamed of a trait like nationality for any reason, let alone because of government decisions. Be disappointed, angry, frustrated, appalled at those choices, sure, but ashamed of a trait of mine because of something out on my control? I don't see the benefit.

People are not the governments of where they have nationality or are living. British people and residents of Britain are not the British government, Russian people and residents of Russia are not the Russian government, and so on.

There will always be a broad range of what people are doing and worldviews within those groups. There are many in both groups doing amazing things, we can't be boiled down to our nationalities or the governments connected to those nationalities and residencies.

The systems of movement have become extremely complex in the last century as governments have taken more control while people have wanted particular border securities that comes with that control. The oldest refugee camps are over 70 years old, homes to thousands of people. It's a large mess, it's frustrating how much is political and profit barriers, but it's not something I'd say I'm ashamed of.

Really, as much as the immigration and asylum systems are largely profit and political games, I think supporting the countries that are going to be providing the bulk of the support in any case and focus on the reforms that would make movement easier as a separate issue. Those I know in Poland, there is a ton going on, but often there isn't space for supplies or the infrastructure to do so. That I think is a more immediate issue that I know some Brits who are helping with.

It's standard for refuges with brown or black skin.
Haven't heard much complaints about this previously.

There usually is a buzz of things at the start of events, but it often dies down after a few weeks to months when compassion fatigue kicks in and other issues take over. There is a bias in how long the media tends to keep attention on them, but there is usually a spike of complaints either way.

The government are well-known to make it exceedingly difficult to get any help you need, so this doesn't surprise me. Sure, there should be a process to go through, but this seems like unnecessary overkill.

I am deeply ashamed of our 'media' and the right wing rags that created this shitshow in the first place. They make me fucking cringe daily, if I come across them.

I don't think we were too bad, at one time (I am gen x) and felt really confident and happy about the UK when I was young. Something septic crept in, perhaps it was always there, waiting to be eked out?

I also don't like the tendency some have to bully others into nationalism. I am not proud of a place due to being born in it. It has to earn my respect like anything else. Right now the UK is shit, at one time it wasn't. I suppose it has altered throughout it's patchy history. This is just the 'now', and it sucks.

I am deeply mortified by the current gov. Everywhere they turn up it's like someone playing a joke role. As if they were plucked out of random jobs like newsagent, masseuse, and plopped into running the country.

On the subject of race, I read a poignant comment on another site last week - that when it comes to refugees, people prefer to consult a pantone chart to check if it's worth taking them in :(

@UnderwriterOption

But they aren't applying from war zones. They are applying from wherever they have fled to.

I don’t think OP is very logical @MangyInseam - we are banging our heads against a brick wall.

I do wish people would see that overstating the situation and emoting undermines important arguments.

Oh jeezo @UnderwriterOption

Unless you are being deliberately obtuse or you're a little dense, I simply don't know what to say anymore.

Many many people are attempting to fill these initial forms & book appointments whilst still in the Ukraine. The forms need uploading before booking in person appointment in one of the approved locations. The appointments are not freely available.

The forms and appointments have to be done Pre or mid flee a war zone.

Try a wee bit harder sweetie to learn empathy rather than spending your afternoon being on my case.

@UnderwriterOption

But they aren't applying from war zones. They are applying from wherever they have fled to.

I don’t think OP is very logical @MangyInseam - we are banging our heads against a brick wall.

I do wish people would see that overstating the situation and emoting undermines important arguments.

Yeah, I agree.

I think that it is a really good thing to try and keep the costs and time down for refugee claims, to make them as simple as possible. And not just good for the refugees, it's good for everyone. It avoids wasting time and money.

But people need to have a realistic understanding of how the system as a whole works, and what it is trying to do when it asks for these kinds of things. And also, I think, the numbers involved. When they sit down with a claimant they are trying to find out, is this person who they claim? Was this guy really a victim of war, or was he hacking up his neighbours with a machete and now wants out of dodge? Or both? How will he manage if he comes to live in our country?

But people need to have a realistic understanding of how the system as a whole works, and what it is trying to do when it asks for these kinds of things. And also, I think, the numbers involved. When they sit down with a claimant they are trying to find out, is this person who they claim? Was this guy really a victim of war, or was he hacking up his neighbours with a machete and now wants out of dodge? Or both? How will he manage if he comes to live in our country?

I agree with this. I think it’s easy to be oh so virtuous and lovely and make wooly statements like ‘oh just get here and we’ll worry about papers when you’re safe’ but who will process the papers of hundreds and hundreds of people flooding into the UK? Where will they all go while waiting for these papers now that they’re ‘safe.’ What do we do if someone who shouldn’t be here arrives and they’re now ‘safe?’

It’s easy to say you’re ‘ashamed to be British’ but difficult to answer how you would resolve this and I don’t think opening the country to literally anyone who wants to come with no pre planning or paperwork is realistic. Very very nice and kind but not realistic.

I do see that it’s an emotional situation though. But it’s one of those where (as adults) bleating ‘I’m ashamed to be British! We should be taking in all refugees from every country in the world!’ It’s just not realistic and nobody saying that is offering any sort of system for how it would work to allow in refugees from anywhere with no planning/papers/permission.

Well this is it - are they just going to accept every person who looks and sound Ukrainian when they show up at the airport?

How about everyone who shows up from the Kakuma, the camp the family my organization is working with most recently came from? Can they just show up too? There are more than 150,000 people living in that camp. Many of them have been waiting years, and there is not enough food there, it is full of disease. They are not better off than the Ukrainians.

Well it’s every country. How can you say anyone Ukrainian can come in but turn away those coming from Syria? Or any other country really, especially one where many live in poverty or where there is civil unrest, or people are fleeing from war or humanitarian crisis. That’s the issue.