Ashamed to be british

[beachcitygirl]

Despite the bombing of a maternity hospital by Putin.
Today we find out exactly what Ukrainians need to do to gain asylum in the UK.

1. Create an online account - on the home office website & fill in a lengthy and detailed application form.
2. Upload proof that their qualifying family member has permanent residence status in the UK - they suggest a copy of the home office vignette embedded in the passport
3. Upload proof of residence in the UKraine for a full year

4.Provide and upload proof of familial relationship with the family member. Birth certificates & marriage certificates of all concerned. 5.Make sure all documents are translated into English before uploading 6.Book and attend an IN-PERON appointment at a home office visa application centre in Poland, Hungary, Romania or France. So that officials can take biometrics and copies of all documents already uploaded. The booking system for appointment frequently crashes & the next available appointment as of today is in two weeks time - at any of the venues

1. Get a tuberculosis vaccination & certificate - have it translated & upload

8.wait at SAME address while home office workers in the UK assess. Be available for phone or zoom interview.

In a fucking war zone. I despair. I truly despair & despise this government with all my heart. Patel is a sociopath & Johnson an idiot.

I'm ashamed 😓

6.Book and attend an IN-PERON appointment at a home office visa application centre in Poland, Hungary, Romania or France. So that officials can take biometrics and copies of all documents already uploaded. The booking system for appointment frequently crashes & the next available appointment as of today is in two weeks time - at any of the venues

7. Get a tuberculosis vaccination & certificate - have it translated & upload
8.wait at SAME address while home office workers in the UK assess. Be available for phone or zoom interview.

In a fucking war zone. I despair. I truly despair & despise this government with all my heart. Patel is a sociopath & Johnson an idiot.

TBF, Poland, Hungary, Romania & France are NOT “war zones” so if that is where they’re triaging applications, it’s not great, but it’s not dangerous. You’ve conflated a couple of ideas there.

I’d be ashamed if I were a member of Priti’s fan club, but hopefully Brits applying pressure domestically will be what persuades them to streamline the process, so nothing to be ashamed of there. Write to your MP and the Home Office, apply pressure yourself and be proud to do so.

@MiniCooper15

It's standard for refuges with brown or black skin. Haven't heard much complaints about this previously.

This. Were you not ashamed to be British then?

There is a massive difference between people fleeing war zones in danger for their lives and those who are migrating for other reasons (sad as they are). To me, that is more pertinent than skin colour, in terms of reasonable expectations of what people will be able to do. Yes, it is appalling. Especially when you look at what our neighbours (like Ireland) are doing.

Its bollocks to say that there weren't Ashamed to be British posts on threads about Britain's response to Syria and Afghanistan. There were plenty.

[quote beachcitygirl]@ThisIsGroundControl
Mini was racist towards myself & Mumsnet hq have deleted. I'm not white. [/quote]
Apologies then, I did go back to check before I questioned it. I don't think the comment should just be deleted, the user should be banned.

@UnderwriterOption I'm not conflating ideas. I'm quoting Victoria Derbyshire.I thought seeing it all in black & white may jog some people who have not previously been politically active - to act.
And of course there's no war zone in France but it is horrific to expect people trying to flee a war zone to manage to make an appointment in France. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Secondly, please stop with the patronising assumptions about what I should do or haven't done & perhaps rtft.

I agree op but we get what we vote for and this government is serving their foreigner hating base well.

I am not sure that this kind of requirement is as unusual as you think.

Getting everything together for an asylum claim in my country - which people generally seem to think is a beacon of liberal openess - is also very complex and difficult. Like the UK we don't generally get people walking across the border to make a claim - they come by boat or plane, but it is not simple.

And from what I understand this is very common when you are talking about refugees who have made it to a second country or a camp applying for entry to a third country. Some places are better than others, for a variety of reasons, but it is not generally the case that it is just simple to get in.

@@ThisIsGroundControl thank you for saying so. Much appreciate. Very classy of you to say so x

I don't think anyone should feel ashamed to be British when you see the amazing work so many British people are doing to help.
However here in Ireland there is a desk set up in Dublin airport to process the 3-400 arrivals a day which has a translator on board. New arrivals have been given sim cards chargers vouchers for Penny's etc donated by private businesses. Here in my primary school we have two little girls starting Monday who have fled the conflict and another local principal just shared all the information documents translated to Ukrainian for the mother..
We are most certainly not perfect and I think the way many economic refugees have been treated is not appropriate however I would like to think these are all positive things .

@Ketchupman

What would happen if there were no checks whatsoever and we threw our borders open to anyone during the war? How do you know that the people coming as refugees are not Russian soldiers who have legged it? How can you support people effectively when you've got no details or records or anything about them? I don't think it's the same as what Poland and so on are doing, that's an immediate humanitarian need rather than longer term resettlement.

They have passports!

[quote beachcitygirl]@UnderwriterOption I'm not conflating ideas. I'm quoting Victoria Derbyshire.I thought seeing it all in black & white may jog some people who have not previously been politically active - to act.
And of course there's no war zone in France but it is horrific to expect people trying to flee a war zone to manage to make an appointment in France. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Secondly, please stop with the patronising assumptions about what I should do or haven't done & perhaps rtft. [/quote]
Either the applications have to made in “Poland, Hungary, Romania or France”, or they need to made “in a war zone”. It’s not both. So yes you’re conflating.

Which isn’t to say I approve of what they’re doing. I don’t.

You being emotive and inaccurate doesn’t help anything, though.

It’s a bit of a trope of Mumsnet that, whenever any government or minister does something regrettable or disgusting, the whole “ashamed to British” nonsense starts. How does it help? Most people don’t support Ms Patel’s decisions.

Better to concentrate on lobbying than on emoting.

@carmenitapink a lot of us have been upset and protesting the British government's treatment of all refugees for many years but we are still allowed to be upset about Ukraine too.

[quote beachcitygirl]@UnderwriterOption I'm not conflating ideas. I'm quoting Victoria Derbyshire.I thought seeing it all in black & white may jog some people who have not previously been politically active - to act.
And of course there's no war zone in France but it is horrific to expect people trying to flee a war zone to manage to make an appointment in France. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Secondly, please stop with the patronising assumptions about what I should do or haven't done & perhaps rtft. [/quote]
But this is how refugee camps are managed. You don't just get to France and then decide to show up in the UK or Span or Canada. You apply to go to these places and you have a bunch of paperwork and often interviews and then you may get accepted.

I'm involved with a group that supports refugees when they come to Canada, we begin to support them from early on in their application.Many of them have been living in refugee camps for years, some were born there. It's a huge deal with tons of paperwork, they need to be interviewed, we need to show paperwork, bank accounts etc.

Countries who border on zones where refugees are fleeing have to handle things a bit differently but they also are going to be looking for documentation, keeping records, etc.

@switswoo81

I don't think anyone should feel ashamed to be British when you see the amazing work so many British people are doing to help. However here in Ireland there is a desk set up in Dublin airport to process the 3-400 arrivals a day which has a translator on board. New arrivals have been given sim cards chargers vouchers for Penny's etc donated by private businesses. Here in my primary school we have two little girls starting Monday who have fled the conflict and another local principal just shared all the information documents translated to Ukrainian for the mother.. We are most certainly not perfect and I think the way many economic refugees have been treated is not appropriate however I would like to think these are all positive things .

Yes that’s what we should be doing. Ireland are doing a much better job with this.

Hopefully there will be a volte face soon.

[quote Laniania]@carmenitapink a lot of us have been upset and protesting the British government's treatment of all refugees for many years but we are still allowed to be upset about Ukraine too.[/quote]
If the number of MN threads suddenly expressing outrage are anything to go by, you may have been, but no the general public has not..!

@MiniCooper15

It's standard for refuges with brown or black skin.
Haven't heard much complaints about this previously.

I remember loads of similar threads about Syria and Afghanistan. Loads of discussion about how best to help or offer accommodation to refugees. There were stone throwers on those threads as well, accusing posters of only caring about brown skined people and not giving a shit about homeless people just because they were white. The fact you didn't see all those threads rather raises the question of why not? Did you just scroll past them all because they were of no interest to you?

I think you assuming the poster is white is more casual racism. Have I missed a post, I can't see what she has said that is so wrong.
THIS

Its another example of performative cruelty by a right wing government that was (unfortunately ) elected to do just this. We are passing a Iaw to jail Ukrainians arriving without a Visa for up to 5 years. Almost all Tory MPs are supporting this.
I am ashamed

@QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat

Is this the process for refugees usually? If so YABU for only caring about Ukrainian refugees and not the 100s of 1000s of people fleeing war usually. I don't agree with the process or how we treat refugees but it is annoying me that NOW people are caring about how appallingly we treat people fleeing war torn countries.

This. It seems you’re only ashamed to be British because it’s white European refugees. Who are already getting special treatment compared to the recent nonwhite Afghan and Syrian refugees who were also fleeing a war zone.

@UnderwriterOption you're simply wrong.
Secondly some of us are intelligent enough to two things at once.
For example I'm naturally empathetic & politically active so I choose to emote & campaign (all at once) you should try it sometime
As for refugee form filling at the moment in a war zone. My preferred option. Get here or anywhere you have family or friend to assist &'we'll worry about paperwork later when you're safe.
That's what we should be doing.

@MiniCooper15

It's standard for refuges with brown or black skin. Haven't heard much complaints about this previously.

Exactly!!! It matters now the people are European in colour

@switswoo81

I don't think anyone should feel ashamed to be British when you see the amazing work so many British people are doing to help. However here in Ireland there is a desk set up in Dublin airport to process the 3-400 arrivals a day which has a translator on board. New arrivals have been given sim cards chargers vouchers for Penny's etc donated by private businesses. Here in my primary school we have two little girls starting Monday who have fled the conflict and another local principal just shared all the information documents translated to Ukrainian for the mother.. We are most certainly not perfect and I think the way many economic refugees have been treated is not appropriate however I would like to think these are all positive things .

I heard them talking on the radio about how Ukranian refugees are being treated here, being given packs at the airport with all they need to know about pps numbers, how to access the health care system etc Businesses asking Ukranians looking for jobs to contact them. It really is heartwarming. I think the government are shit scared because they know Ireland is in the middle of quite the housing and healthcare crisis and I don't think they actually have no idea what they will do if the projected numbers come but I applaud them for trying.

Like you say Ireland is far from perfect but I really believe this time around they are at least trying to get it right.

[quote Kendodd]**@MiniCooper15

It's standard for refuges with brown or black skin.
Haven't heard much complaints about this previously.

I remember loads of similar threads about Syria and Afghanistan. Loads of discussion about how best to help or offer accommodation to refugees. There were stone throwers on those threads as well, accusing posters of only caring about brown skined people and not giving a shit about homeless people just because they were white. The fact you didn't see all those threads rather raises the question of why not? Did you just scroll past them all because they were of no interest to you?[/quote]

1. The offensive post has been removed.
2. I'm quite new to Mumsnet so haven't back read all previous threads about refugees
3. I'm sure many people here (as in life) cared very very much about refugees before current crisis)
4. I can (and do) care about that & this.

1. I'm not white

Any more "whataboutery" ?

[quote beachcitygirl]@UnderwriterOption you're simply wrong.
Secondly some of us are intelligent enough to two things at once.
For example I'm naturally empathetic & politically active so I choose to emote & campaign (all at once) you should try it sometime
As for refugee form filling at the moment in a war zone. My preferred option. Get here or anywhere you have family or friend to assist &'we'll worry about paperwork later when you're safe.
That's what we should be doing.

[/quote]
You were describing that applicants have to apply from a safe European mainland country clearing station and then stay there for the answer (true from what I’ve seen), and simultaneously asserting that that constituted waiting in a war zone.

One of us is very wrong, for sure.

Dover triage would be better, of course.