To not want to go on holiday with friend due to her eating disorder?

[Backujij]

Or at least what I think is an eating disorder.

I go on holiday with a friend every so often, and she has asked me to join her on a city break later this month. I love her and usually enjoy her company, but her attitude to food has got to the point where I don’t want to go.

If I leave anything on my plate there is a huge fuss made about wasting food. She will have my leftover food boxed up and carry it around for the rest of the evening. Nothing wrong with that if it was substantial, but it’s even if it’s a few carrots or a couple of spoonfuls of soup, and she makes such a big thing of it, always with questions like ‘how much do you waste at home? You should keep anything you don’t finish at home and have it for your next meal until it’s gone’. On one occasion, she took back to our hotel a bit of pie I hadn’t finished, and had the filling for dinner one evening and the pastry the next, and refused to order any dinner while I ate because she’d had the leftovers.

She also decided exactly what restaurants we’re eating in before we arrive on holiday, and there is no leeway. She will quiz the waiters about the food and their suggestions for a lengthy time to find out if it’s local food etc before she orders, and it’s embarrassing. She has woken me up in the morning to show me the menu of where we’re eating that night. She makes a huge fuss of having to have exactly what she wants to eat at exactly where she wants to eat, and never ever consults me. If I offer up alternatives she’ll say (huffily) ‘well we can go there but no, I won’t be eating there. I want something healthier/more local/less expensive/not as touristy’ etc.

Sometimes she’ll come to restaurants she hasn’t chosen, refuse to eat, then ask if she can have people’s leftovers when they’ve finished.

She got so thin at one point that she was hospitalised with exhaustion and told to lay off exercise for a while. I have never asked her about whether she thinks she has an eating disorder, although she did say on our last holiday that she did get too thin at one point.

She knows she’s controlling about food and has asked if it bothers me. I have said it does, but she never changes.

I know that she’s probably ill, but WIBU to refuse to go on holiday with her any more? It’s a shame because otherwise I adore her company and have known her many years, and we live on opposite sides of the country so we really only get to see each other when we go away.

AIBU to stop holidaying with her because of this when it is likely she can’t help it? Should I go and try and be supportive?

I know you like to see her but I'm not sure why. I think I would've run away screaming by now. Would you be interested in her visiting you at your house? Would that be easier? Or vice versa if you go to stay with her? Mind you I imagine her husband would like a little break from her.

I wrote before of my own eating disorder, so please don’t think that I am being unsympathetic. I just don’t think it’s healthy (for either of you) for you to pretend that you can’t see the elephant tap dancing on the very precariously balanced table in the room.

I don’t think she is justifying her behaviour to herself. I think she is using a whole heap of virtue-signaling twaddle to hide her eating disorder behind. She is also goading you into challenging her, which you haven’t done. The fact that you have allowed her to behave like this has made you the perfect traveling companion. There’s a reason she hasn’t asked anyone else. It’s probable she has pushed everyone else away.

The obsession with “clean eating” (or seasonal/local eating is a covert eating disorder known as orthorexia. It is well-known to be a hiding spot for anorexics. (Some say a gateway, but my therapists said that they are two sides of the same coin. Just differently-constructed justifications for denial of food/pleasure, etc… to gain a sense of control.) I don’t doubt that she is very unwell, but I don’t think it’s healthy for you to perpetuate it by going on holidays with her and pretending you can’t see any issues - nor is it your job to become her counsellor. I do wonder if she is seeing someone at home, or if perhaps things aren’t so rosy with her DH and he is either invested in her illness or burying his head in the sand also. (Suspect the latter as it’s the easier way out.)

I think the only way is either self catering- but you each bring your own food (don’t shop together!) Or, go on holiday to the same place but stay in separate locations and only meet up for activities- would only work if you each brought a partner/other friend to eat with I guess?!

Her situation is quite sad. I wouldn't go on anymore holidays with her anymore. They sound too stressful and unpleasant.

Eventually she'll push away anyone who doesn't turn a blind eye.

It sounds like she needs some sort of intervention. I don't know if that is done with ED.

I felt ill reading the OPs posts - cannot imagine how difficult it would be to have a 'holiday' with someone with this fixation and behaviour. I was very weird about food for many, many years (ED) but could mask it to some degree in public (or so I thought). This woman needs help - and the OP is not the one to give it, and a 'holiday' is not the place to be getting help off someone who is not a specialist in such disorders.

[quote HailAdrian]@Backujij of course I don't know how to approach it, I don't know the woman! I think a bunch of MNers banging on about how annoying she must be and how they couldn't bear to be friends with her when she seems to have a serious mental illness is fucking weird though.[/quote]
Totally agree. And at the end of eating disorders awareness week aswell!fucking hell.we really need to educate ourselves on mental illness.how serious,real,fatal,horrific they are.not annoying,no time for,leave them to it,be cruel to them shit.would you say this crap to cancer patients,alzeimas ,heart attacks?

My mil was similar. She would come to a meal and refuse to order even a drink. No dementia issues, could happily eat in front of people at other times, not short of money and ate a wide variety of foods, no allergies. It was embarrassing as we were regulars and the restaurant owner seemed quite rightly annoyed at her taking up a seat. She even laughed about it when DH said mum you can't sit in a restaurant and not order anything to which she said yes l can l'll just watch you lot eat (she was sat right opposite me too so l thought great so l said rather you didn't actually to which she had a strop and sat sulking ruining the whole meal. She was always very controlling and attention seeking. I just said to DH that was last meal l was going on if she was attending as it was like feeding time at the bloody zoo being watched like that. Your friend must watch you OP if she eats so little and is waiting for you to finish.

I have dealt with a number of eating disorders in friends and professionally in my life (I was a psychiatric technician), and I can tell you that going on holiday with her and putting up with her issues is not supporting her. Supporting her is telling her that you love her, and you love your time together, but that her rigidity regarding food is terribly exhausting and make you worry for her. And that you won't be doing holidays with her again until she has managed to find a more healthy relationship with food.

I think you should just put up with her unusual and quirky eating habits, at least she want's to go away with you. You could always tell her, that it annoys you, if she mentions about you leaving any food. etc. honesty about some things, is always the best policy.

Oh god, I don’t think you should put up with it. If she was ‘just’ controlling her own eating then I’d feel worried for her, but she’s controlling you. No thank you. Also - if she struggles so much with it, why does she want to put herself in the position of being on holiday, eating together? It appears the answer is that there’s some reward for her in the process of controlling other people’s eating. Again, no thanks.

To add to it - you’ve tried to talk about it and it didn’t work, so just don’t go again. It’s not mean, you’re just not enabling the scenario.

@Backujij

• Because there is no real reason to say no.

If I have whatever left on my plate and she begins her judgement on leaving food and how wrong it is because people are starving, I do shut her down, usually by telling her it makes no difference to starving people whether my leftovers go into the bin or my stomach. But when she says ‘I’m going to take them home then. I can’t stand leftover food’, if I said ‘no’, she’d ask why, and what do I say?

If I said it was embarrassing she’d say she didn’t care what people think.*

You say, ‘no, it’s my food and I decide what happens with it. Your obsession is not healthy and damages your and your family”s and friends’ well-being . You need help and I will not enable your behaviour. I’m not going out to restaurants and on holidays until you have tackled your issues.’

As sad as her condition is, i would not be able to be around her at meal times and i would not
Want to go
Away with her again

She’d say ‘I’m carrying it around and it’s me risking food poisoning’, which it is.

God then I'd just keep saying no. But i really think you need to have a chat with her and tell her what you said here, that seeing her is great and that you love her as a friend but the whole food thing is too stressful and it ruins you relaxing time off. Say it factually and kindly and see what she says.
She knows she has a problem because her DH has mentioned it and she has asked you. And maybe she wants you to say "no, because of your food thing"? or maybe she wants you to say "yes, don't be daft, you do you" and remain in denial?

But it does seem a shame to have this hanging over you every day. 3 meals a day at least. It would drive me batty. I have sympathy for her because i have known several people with eating disorders and it has not always ended well. She needs help.

I wouldn’t want to go on holiday with her and I’d try to be upfront about why. I certainly couldn’t cope with lectures and judgements about what I was eating or leaving. It’s none of her business.

So far the responses seem to be split :

• I've no experience of eating disorders and these holidays don't sound like fun, you've tried, if it's not working don't go
• I've experience of eating disorders, it's not your job to fix her, this is beyond what any friend is capable of fixing anyway. Pandering to her isn't helping. Don't go
• I'm like your friend, #bekind

Hi OP, I think you need to let this one go, kindly, while letting her know you are there for her if she ever wants to talk (look on the Beat website for dos and don'ts). It might just be the push she needs to get help.

If it was a local friend you could dodge the issue but you can't if you're staying away from home.

I have taken short breaks with an anorexic friend and also (separately) with colleagues with different attitudes to food to me: one who eats healthily but I suspect may have suffered in the past and one who's a foodie but can forget about food for hours at a time when absorbed in something else.

I like my food and think about it a lot! I'm a little overweight too. But NONE of these women has commented rudely on what I eat, tried to order me to eat or not eat anything or generally tried to impose their feelings about food on me (the poor anorexic used to really try to be "normal" about food but just couldn't do it -- she's had help now but I wouldn't go for more than a coffee, which she can handle).

Bottom line, no-one wants to be reduced to what they do or don't eat and that goes for you as much as your friend. You matter as much as your friend.

YANBU to not want to holiday under that pressure.

Having lived with an ED myself, it’s no fun at at all and I would have hated to think I was ruining friendships with my behaviours. Food takes over every waking thought, though that doesn’t excuse it at all, it does impact your relationships. Your friend is being tormented.

You can have an eating disorder/be neurodiverse and still be a dickhead. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I think there's probably plenty of reasons you can give to swerve a holiday.....not enough leave, have a backlog of places to see with family post pandemic etc.
I have family members who are incapable of just making a decision so will trail up and down looking at menus and prices. Can't bear it. It's one meal, not a life time decision.

@SpiderinaWingMirror but I do think in this case OP does need to be a little bit honest about why she's not going. There were some good responses up thread but something along the lines of "Friend I love you dearly, but I can't go away with you because our meal styles are too incompatible ".

@FrankGrillosFloof

Just wanted to add that I’ve witnessed the obsessive saving of leftovers as part of disordered eating before. My aunt sort of justified using up leftovers to herself as less guilty calories. For example, she wouldn’t eat anything at breakfast but would save any leftover pieces of toast and eat them cold later on. She didn’t have a particular liking for cold toast, it’s just that in her mind, there was less guilt associated with eating something that was leftover, rather than taking a piece fresh for herself (or, heaven forbid, expressly making a piece of toast just for her).

My SIL will order a salad if we are all meeting up for lunch.She will then 'share' other people's chips,etc. She has only had salad and therefore only has to pay for salad and in her head has only eaten healthy food, but she will have eaten half of other, people pleasing, SILs chips. Slightly wet SIL who bought the chips will also have been told she can't have salt and vinegar on her chips now as salad eating SIL doesn't like it.

@bangaverage

You can have an eating disorder/be neurodiverse and still be a dickhead. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Yes you can! Let's please normalise this!!!

Once you become an adult you should has reached an understanding that it's not acceptable to control other people. It's perfectly fine to be anxious and to make choices about your own life, diet etc but it's not okay to start dictating what other people in your life should do. Yes you can let them know that xyz make you anxious and they can find ways to make things easier for you. Obviously there should always be some degree of making allowances and adjustments for neurodiverse people, but healthy relationships have compromise and understanding on both sides. Making allowances should not come at the price of making other people unhappy.

For example my dad we suspect has ASD but he is an abusive, racist, bigoted, misogynistic arse hole. He was verbally and physically abusive to me as a child. He's not a nice person. I spent most of my childhood walking on eggshells because he liked things doing exactly his way or the highway

This all brings back memories! My closest friend at Uni developed anorexia, and all of this behaviour is familiar. After two years of living with her, and two holidays spent trying to accommodate her increasingly unreasonable demands and manipulative behaviour, whilst watching her get thinner and thinner, I called her parents and told them everything (we were only 20 at the time). She was furious with me!

They persuaded her to be admitted to an eating disorder unit (by threatening to stop funding her through Uni if she didn’t), and she got the help she needed and recovered, but afterwards she ‘reinvented’ herself and cut me and some other friends out of her life completely.

15 years later she got back in touch via social media and she seems happy, sensible weight, good career, two lovely kids. I’m pleased for her. Even having lost the friendship, I’m still very glad that I intervened when I did! In your place I would have a difficult conversation about why you’re not coming on holiday, signpost her (and her husband if possible) to BEAT and accept that your friendship may well suffer. You might save her life.