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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who's being a dick here, me or the nursery?

290 replies

Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 21:34

DD is three and hasn't napped at home for over a year - her choice!bBut continued napping at nursery.

Bedtimes were getting significantly worse after nursery nap, and so six months ago I asked them to cut her nap. Nursery said it was hard to keep her awake when all the other kids had their naps and she was just really tired and falling asleep. Fair enough, I asked them to limit the nap instead, which sort of helped for a bit, but then they kept forgetting, and gradually it just stopped working anyway, and we went back to no sleeping till 10/11pm.

So, as DD was due to go up to the pre-school room where there was no naptime anyway, a couple of month's ago I said I really wanted the nap to stop as she wasn't sleeping till 10/11pm, and to prepare her for no nap in the new room. This was a battle with nursery who were not keen but eventually agreed. Was brilliant, bedtimes were quick and easy, DD getting a solid 11/12 hours a night.

She's now started in the pre-school room and...has been napping. Apparently they have story time after lunch and she drops off. I have asked them to keep her awake and explained loads of times that this means she's not sleeping till 10/11pm, and so is losing out on three hours sleep a night for the sake of 45 mins in the afternoon. She's then tired the next day, so even more likely to fall asleep, and so it goes on.

Nursery have basically said if she's falling asleep and calling her name doesn't wake her up, they won't do anything else to rouse her or keep her awake, and won't take her out to do something else at story time. I really do understand their reluctance to wake a tired kid, but it's totally detrimental to her wellbeing as it means she is getting much less sleep.

Would I be unreasonable to really push them on this? Or is this usual nursery policy?

OP posts:
labyrinthlaziness · 14/02/2022 21:36

If other kids in the same room have a nap, then YABU. It'll be a nightmare for them if they have to focus on keeping her awake, surely?

Justwingingit2005 · 14/02/2022 21:38

My boys were last at nursery 7 yrs ago but they always operated on the theory if they fall asleep they fall asleep. The nursery only tried to stop napping towards summer of the year they went to school.
My boys were not at nursery all day but I do remember a friend of mine having an issue with naps and sleeping but her daughter went from 7.30am to 5pm and didn't want her napping. Personally that's a long day and I'd need a nap too 😴

ButtockUp · 14/02/2022 21:39

Hard though it is for you, if a child is tired , then they will fall asleep.
Even in YrR , children fall asleep at story time etc...
They will grow out of it.
Harsh though this may sound, it's not the nursery's job to make your night times easier.

GreenWheat · 14/02/2022 21:39

Stick to your guns. They should make more effort to keep her awake, especially when none of the other kids are napping in the pre school room.

ChittyBangs · 14/02/2022 21:41

It's a tough one, I see both sides.
My son is the same if he naps at nursery, nighttime's are long.
But I did say to them if he needs a nap he needs a nap I'll deal with it tonight.
It's hard to keep them awake when they are nodding off and I don't expect my nursery having to do all sorts to keep him awake.

What times/days is she there?

UmbilicusProfundus · 14/02/2022 21:41

Well now she’s moved to the no-napping preschool, nursery are being the dicks. It’s probably a lot easier for them to look after a napping child, so don’t enforce their own rules when it suit them. I presume you pay them fuck loads of money too

Totalwasteofpaper · 14/02/2022 21:41

@labyrinthlaziness

If other kids in the same room have a nap, then YABU. It'll be a nightmare for them if they have to focus on keeping her awake, surely?
DD was due to go up to the pre-school room where there was no naptime anyway

She's now started in the pre-school room

There was a thread elsewhere about people being unable to read which i originally thought OTT.
Apparently not.

@Mehblehfeh YANBU. You are paying thousands each month they need to respect your request and drop the nap. Push them on this.

cuno · 14/02/2022 21:41

It's not about who's being a dick, but the nursery can't force her to stay awake or keep waking her up, there's stuff that you can do as a parent that wouldn't be allowed in a nursery.

Sirzy · 14/02/2022 21:42

If they are falling asleep soon after dinner then assuming it’s a full day then it would be unfair on the child and nursery to try to keep her awake

nokidshere · 14/02/2022 21:45

It's impossible and unfair to keep a sleepy child awake. And counterproductive since they just get very overtired and less likely to sleep later on.

During my years working with children, both in nurseries and at home, I've had children fall asleep in their dinner, curled up behind the sofa and countless other places other than a bed. It doesn't matter what the parent says, if a child is tired they will fall asleep.

ParalysisByAnalysis · 14/02/2022 21:45

I’m with you on this. I had this same battle about my daughter but thankfully my nursery did eventually listen to me. In my case however she wasnt even tired - they were encouraging her to sleep and she didn’t want to (she dropped her nap at something ridiculous like 18 months). To be fair it’s the only real battle I have had with what has been a brilliant nursery so i can’t complain really.

Don’t be fooled - it’s obviously easier for them if she just sleeps. But you are (presumably) paying for her to be there so they should be listening to you.

RomeoMcFlourish · 14/02/2022 21:45

Nursery have basically said if she's falling asleep and calling her name doesn't wake her up, they won't do anything else to rouse her or keep her awake, and won't take her out to do something else at story time

This seems perfectly fair. If a child is so tired that calling their name doesn’t stop them dropping off, there’s not really anything else they can do that isn’t either cruel towards the child or awkward for the staff involved (it’s not just as easy as taking a child outside to let the fresh air wake them up or whatever, there are staffing levels in the rooms and other factors to consider).

I have been where you are, my DD was a complete nightmare for around 6 months whilst she was between dropping naps and needing them, but a nursery can’t keep a child who needs to sleep awake.

Bobbybobbins · 14/02/2022 21:49

We had the same situation with ours and decided just to let it go in the end. They had a policy of letting them sleep if they were dropping off, which I do get, though it did make night times tough. One issue in the pre school rooms is that the staffing ratios are much lower so it's harder for them to eg take a child outside

newtolineofduty · 14/02/2022 21:49

Feel your pain! We're in exactly the same situation! Had the convo with nursery but nothing changes as they've said the same as yours. We've just taken to putting her to bed a little later on a nursery day xx

steppemum · 14/02/2022 21:50

I would ask them to work with you for 2 weeks to break the after lunchtiredness. Emphasise the 3-4 hours per night v. the 45 min nap.

At the moment the cycle is 11pm bed, so tired next day, so she naps, so she goes to bed late, so tired.....

If for 2 weeks she didn't nap and slept at night, she would get back into the rhythmn of sleep at night, not tired in the day.

I think it is reasonable to insist that they work with you for 2 weeks. After that, if she still falls asleep, I think it is really hard to insist they keep her awake every day.

Katya213 · 14/02/2022 21:53

If she’s tired she’s tired. My dd used to fall asleep in reception, she’s now grown out of it by year 1.

Penvelopey · 14/02/2022 21:54

How would you like it if you were really really tired so tired that saying your name didn't wake you and then someone forced you to stay awake?!

ParalysisByAnalysis · 14/02/2022 21:54

I don’t really understand the reluctance to put the nursery out, not their job to make nights easier etc.

We pay through the nose for the nursery.

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 21:55

Balls. Looks like consensus is I'm the dick Sad

It just doesn't feel right though 'allowing' something that is negatively affecting her so much. She is wide awake now after having a half hour nap at nursery today, and upset as she wants to be asleep but can't drop off. She will still wake up at 7am tomorrow, she won't sleep late, so instead of 11/12 hours will get 8/9.

She's in nursery 4 days a week, for about 7/8 hours a day. And yes I pay them a shit ton!

OP posts:
Penvelopey · 14/02/2022 21:55

@RomeoMcFlourish

Nursery have basically said if she's falling asleep and calling her name doesn't wake her up, they won't do anything else to rouse her or keep her awake, and won't take her out to do something else at story time

This seems perfectly fair. If a child is so tired that calling their name doesn’t stop them dropping off, there’s not really anything else they can do that isn’t either cruel towards the child or awkward for the staff involved (it’s not just as easy as taking a child outside to let the fresh air wake them up or whatever, there are staffing levels in the rooms and other factors to consider).

I have been where you are, my DD was a complete nightmare for around 6 months whilst she was between dropping naps and needing them, but a nursery can’t keep a child who needs to sleep awake.

I agree. It sounds absolutely cruel to force a child to stay awake when they are desperate for a nap.
Laura0729 · 14/02/2022 21:56

Nursery like children to have a nap so the staff can take their breaks- I've been told this by nursery. Less children awake means less staff needed (regardless of ratios).

Mine was just like yours, no naps at home but had them at nursery- I asked them to limit them to half an hour nap and it was so obvious when this wasn't done as it was a fight at bedtime. One time I was told 'an hours nap...' I was like WHAT?? and was then asked oh what should he have, yes he had that. Total crap. They say what you want to hear if they're more about business than care.

One little shit hit mine (was known for this and parents were open/ honest/ apologetic) and it got to the point staff would say he hadn't hit other children when he had as manager was saying it's going to cause issues keep admitting he hits daily. Result, parents rewarding with sweets daily and hit children who could voice it to parents were sushed by staff saying it was kids being kids.

Amazing what you find out from behind the scenes. I moved mine asap after finding out all this.

Not all nurserys are bad though.

I'd definitely challenge the nursery though as they could quite easily do a singing / clapping activity after lunch to wake the children up- they read to them because they want them asleep!

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 21:56

To be clear, this is not about making my nights easier, it's about DD missing out on a significant amount of sleep.

OP posts:
Penvelopey · 14/02/2022 21:58

You don't pay them to be cruel to your child though

WonderfulYou · 14/02/2022 21:59

You’re definitely not a dick but YABU as IME it’s very difficult to keep a tired child awake and if you do they are very unhappy.

I can imagine if I was so tired and someone was trying to keep me awake it would be awful.

If your child is napping then I think it’s because that’s what her body needs.

She is very busy at nursery which is maybe what tires her out and when you pick her up it could be more chilled out. So maybe you could try burning the excess energy off a couple hours before bedtime if you haven’t already.

Cissyandflora · 14/02/2022 21:59

No I’m definitely with you Op. the nursery staff are being lazy. It drives me mad when people allow children to sleep in the day and then they don’t sleep at night. It’s the sign of a rubbish nursery in my opinion.