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Original poster

Who's being a dick here, me or the nursery?

290 replies

Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 21:34

DD is three and hasn't napped at home for over a year - her choice!bBut continued napping at nursery.

Bedtimes were getting significantly worse after nursery nap, and so six months ago I asked them to cut her nap. Nursery said it was hard to keep her awake when all the other kids had their naps and she was just really tired and falling asleep. Fair enough, I asked them to limit the nap instead, which sort of helped for a bit, but then they kept forgetting, and gradually it just stopped working anyway, and we went back to no sleeping till 10/11pm.

So, as DD was due to go up to the pre-school room where there was no naptime anyway, a couple of month's ago I said I really wanted the nap to stop as she wasn't sleeping till 10/11pm, and to prepare her for no nap in the new room. This was a battle with nursery who were not keen but eventually agreed. Was brilliant, bedtimes were quick and easy, DD getting a solid 11/12 hours a night.

She's now started in the pre-school room and...has been napping. Apparently they have story time after lunch and she drops off. I have asked them to keep her awake and explained loads of times that this means she's not sleeping till 10/11pm, and so is losing out on three hours sleep a night for the sake of 45 mins in the afternoon. She's then tired the next day, so even more likely to fall asleep, and so it goes on.

Nursery have basically said if she's falling asleep and calling her name doesn't wake her up, they won't do anything else to rouse her or keep her awake, and won't take her out to do something else at story time. I really do understand their reluctance to wake a tired kid, but it's totally detrimental to her wellbeing as it means she is getting much less sleep.

Would I be unreasonable to really push them on this? Or is this usual nursery policy?

OP posts:
mynameiscalypso · 14/02/2022 21:59

We have a similar issue except DS is still in a room with regular naps and so I understand why they want him to nap so that they can get a bit of a break. As a compromise, I've asked that they try and do more active things in the afternoon rather than the morning so that he's a bit more tired out and ready for bed.

HardbackWriter · 14/02/2022 22:00

@ParalysisByAnalysis

I don’t really understand the reluctance to put the nursery out, not their job to make nights easier etc.

We pay through the nose for the nursery.

I don't think anyone is saying the primary consideration should be not inconveniencing the nursery nurses (though they certainly don't get paid through the nose!). The problem with keeping a child who is very very sleepy awake is that they then usually become a very distressed child - asking nursery to do that is unfair on the child, not them.
Penvelopey · 14/02/2022 22:00

Yes @HardbackWriter it's as you say. It's not about the nursery staff it's about the child.

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 22:01

It seems more cruel to do something that means she can't sleep for hours at night, when she really needs to! She never naps at home and is absolutely fine, she will get sleepy in the car but I distract her to keep her awake. Didn't think that was cruel.

OP posts:
Cissyandflora · 14/02/2022 22:01

@Laura0729

Nursery like children to have a nap so the staff can take their breaks- I've been told this by nursery. Less children awake means less staff needed (regardless of ratios).

Mine was just like yours, no naps at home but had them at nursery- I asked them to limit them to half an hour nap and it was so obvious when this wasn't done as it was a fight at bedtime. One time I was told 'an hours nap...' I was like WHAT?? and was then asked oh what should he have, yes he had that. Total crap. They say what you want to hear if they're more about business than care.

One little shit hit mine (was known for this and parents were open/ honest/ apologetic) and it got to the point staff would say he hadn't hit other children when he had as manager was saying it's going to cause issues keep admitting he hits daily. Result, parents rewarding with sweets daily and hit children who could voice it to parents were sushed by staff saying it was kids being kids.

Amazing what you find out from behind the scenes. I moved mine asap after finding out all this.

Not all nurserys are bad though.

I'd definitely challenge the nursery though as they could quite easily do a singing / clapping activity after lunch to wake the children up- they read to them because they want them asleep!

Exactly this. It’s lazy staff. It’s not putting the child’s well-being first.
ParalysisByAnalysis · 14/02/2022 22:01

It’s not automatically cruel. My kids have lulls at home when they’re sleepy. I get them up, into the garden or get them into an activity and that generally perks them up.

Appreciate it doesn’t always work when they’re small and if they’re going to sleep, they’re going to sleep but it’s not cruel to try to distract them a bit.

Cissyandflora · 14/02/2022 22:04

If the children are kept active and interested they don’t fall asleep in the daytime. Once they fall asleep then yes, it’s hard to wake them up and they might get distressed. The point is you don’t encourage sleep in the day.

ChittyBangs · 14/02/2022 22:04

I don't think it's cruel. Nor do I think distracting them is cruel. But if your falling asleep and not waking up by someone saying your name you obv need a sleep.

ParalysisByAnalysis · 14/02/2022 22:07

Honestly there wasn’t much I wouldn’t do to prevent a danger nap when mine were toddlers Grin

nokidshere · 14/02/2022 22:07

No I’m definitely with you Op. the nursery staff are being lazy. It drives me mad when people allow children to sleep in the day and then they don’t sleep at night. It’s the sign of a rubbish nursery in my opinion.

Don't be ridiculous. Some children need a sleep in the daytime. If you want personalised care for your child then get a nanny.

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 22:08

I do appreciate the not wanting to wake DD up, I just wish they would make more effort to stop her from falling asleep in the first place.

I really don't know what to do for the best, I don't want to argue with nursery about it and appreciate their point of view, but I feel like I'm not sticking up for DD enough when I know that overall the nap is not good for her wellbeing.

OP posts:
smellingofroses · 14/02/2022 22:08

I am with you on this, my little one is 3 nearly 4. Hasn't has day time naps since turning 2 due to the fact it was like a complete re charge and I was lucky if she went to bed that night at 1-2 am !

I found she didn't even attempt napping at home but because other kids at nursery were encouraged to have quiet time after lunch she would join in and of course have a sleep. They did turn of lights and other stimuli so it was easy for her to drop off. The issue I had was that she wouldn't go to sleep till early hours then I had to get her back up early the next morning which as you can imagine was a complete nightmare.
She would literally sob to stay in bed then become completely hysterical when I dressed her. All this from a normally placid kid.
I discussed this with nursery staff at length who at first said basically tough, after a particularly bad night were she didn't go down until after 3 I got serious. I was a bloody knackered nurse coping on very little sleep all for a 40 min nap at nursery so I cornered the nursery manager and explained at length the problems this was causing.
It became easier to beg family to have her at one point rather than nursery because she wasn't encouraged to nap there.
Nursery manager eventually suggested if they were doing nap time to let her play in the older room for an hour.
Just this little bit of common sense was all that was needed.

nokidshere · 14/02/2022 22:08

If the children are kept active and interested they don’t fall asleep in the daytime. Once they fall asleep then yes, it’s hard to wake them up and they might get distressed. The point is you don’t encourage sleep in the day.

Again, don't be ridiculous. Children under 5 can be as active and interested as they like and still fall asleep in their dinner.

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 22:10

Sorry for everyone else that has struggled with this, it really is a shitter!

OP posts:
Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 22:11

They say her name to try and rouse her. If that does not work what can they do? They can not shake or poke her to stay awake.

Hangingtrousers · 14/02/2022 22:12

The nursery are being lazy. I teach pre school class and not one of my class nap after lunch. They are too busy to nap!
My son is in the 2s room and doesn't nap at home but they keep letting him nap at nursery.. I think it's convenience.

HardbackWriter · 14/02/2022 22:12

@Cissyandflora

If the children are kept active and interested they don’t fall asleep in the daytime. Once they fall asleep then yes, it’s hard to wake them up and they might get distressed. The point is you don’t encourage sleep in the day.
That just isn't true for all children, though - mine absolutely hated napping and had to be coaxed into at great length as a baby and then stopped early, but my nephew will fall asleep mid way through a meal, in a corner of a busy softplay, under the table at a birthday party. Just like adults children vary greatly in how easy they find it to fall asleep and some of them can do it anywhere! It sounds like OP's child is falling asleep sat on a carpet listening to a story - it's not like they're getting her to lie on a bed and are then surprised she sleeps! And a bit of quiet time after lunch is really normal and widely advised, it doesn't mean they're secretly trying to get them to sleep.
mynameiscalypso · 14/02/2022 22:12

@Mehblehfeh

I do appreciate the not wanting to wake DD up, I just wish they would make more effort to stop her from falling asleep in the first place.

I really don't know what to do for the best, I don't want to argue with nursery about it and appreciate their point of view, but I feel like I'm not sticking up for DD enough when I know that overall the nap is not good for her wellbeing.

Is losing the sleep at night having a detrimental impact on her or do you just think that it would be? That sounds more arse-y than I mean but I'm in a Covid dog and can't articulate very well. What I mean is more that my DS didn't go to sleep until 10pm last night. He got up at his usual time this morning and has been no different to any other day when he goes to sleep at 7pm.
WonderfulYou · 14/02/2022 22:12

It seems more cruel to do something that means she can't sleep for hours at night, when she really needs to!

But she is sleeping at home, just not for as long.
Why is it more important for her to sleep at night and not during the day?

We grow into sleeping for one long period but babies/toddlers often need shorter and regular sleeps.

There’s a big difference between being a bit tired and being exhausted and I think if they try and wake her and she just falls back to sleep then she is exhausted and it’s not fair to keep her awake and she’d just end up falling asleep an hour later anyway.

Willowowisp · 14/02/2022 22:13

My son used to sleep for ages at nursery. He did it so he could spend the evenings with me. I miss having a two year old cuddling me and watching TV on an evening after work. Littlies love spending time with you and can work out the best way to do that.

Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 22:13

@Cissyandflora

If the children are kept active and interested they don’t fall asleep in the daytime. Once they fall asleep then yes, it’s hard to wake them up and they might get distressed. The point is you don’t encourage sleep in the day.
That is not true. I used to work in a nursery and have seen kids fall asleep in the sand tray. Some children are over tired and drop off easily.
Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 22:15

The thing is, DD never just falls asleep at home. She doesn't fall asleep if I try and put her down for a nap! I bloody tired and tired to keep it when she turned two but she wasn't having it. So she's not the kind of child that just falls asleep in the day.

OP posts:
HardbackWriter · 14/02/2022 22:16

If you think that all it needs is a period of pushing through with no nap and then she won't be tired enough to nap then couldn't you take some annual leave and do this reset yourself?

Notlostjustexploring · 14/02/2022 22:16

I had this with my eldest. Same sort of thing, half an hour of a nap, resulted in 2 hours less sleep at night. Our nursery were good though. When the other kids were having a nap, he was taken outside to play.

Beetrootisred · 14/02/2022 22:16

The nursery are correct in allowing your child to sleep. Ofsted's welfare guidance is that the child's needs must be met at all times, this means if they want to fall asleep they must be allowed to. The United Nations Convention on the rights of the child also states that a child has the right to rest when they want to. Early years organisations, such as Early Years Alliance, advise nurseries that this means they must not force a child to stay awake when they are tired.

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