Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who's being a dick here, me or the nursery?

290 replies

Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 21:34

DD is three and hasn't napped at home for over a year - her choice!bBut continued napping at nursery.

Bedtimes were getting significantly worse after nursery nap, and so six months ago I asked them to cut her nap. Nursery said it was hard to keep her awake when all the other kids had their naps and she was just really tired and falling asleep. Fair enough, I asked them to limit the nap instead, which sort of helped for a bit, but then they kept forgetting, and gradually it just stopped working anyway, and we went back to no sleeping till 10/11pm.

So, as DD was due to go up to the pre-school room where there was no naptime anyway, a couple of month's ago I said I really wanted the nap to stop as she wasn't sleeping till 10/11pm, and to prepare her for no nap in the new room. This was a battle with nursery who were not keen but eventually agreed. Was brilliant, bedtimes were quick and easy, DD getting a solid 11/12 hours a night.

She's now started in the pre-school room and...has been napping. Apparently they have story time after lunch and she drops off. I have asked them to keep her awake and explained loads of times that this means she's not sleeping till 10/11pm, and so is losing out on three hours sleep a night for the sake of 45 mins in the afternoon. She's then tired the next day, so even more likely to fall asleep, and so it goes on.

Nursery have basically said if she's falling asleep and calling her name doesn't wake her up, they won't do anything else to rouse her or keep her awake, and won't take her out to do something else at story time. I really do understand their reluctance to wake a tired kid, but it's totally detrimental to her wellbeing as it means she is getting much less sleep.

Would I be unreasonable to really push them on this? Or is this usual nursery policy?

OP posts:
Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 22:43

@OfstedOffred

Agree with pp - story time (really any quiet sedentary soothing activity) right after lunch is a standard way to induce sleep- even adults often feel a little energy lull at that time.

A nursery choosing that time for stories/audiobooks etc is trying to encourage kids to sleep/rest. Our preschool the children go outside to play after lunch. Its very rare for children to fall asleep and we take from 2.5 up.

You are wrong. Every nursery I ever worked in did this. We were not trying to get them to go to sleep. Pre-schools do not run 8 am to 6 pm. Totally different scenario.
Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 22:44

She's just gone! Poor wee mite.

I would change nursery, but am hoping to move soonish and don't want to have too many changes of setting for DD.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts, seems like I'm being approximately half a dick Grin.

I think I am going to email the nursery, set out the situation in writing and ask to meet to have a chat about how we can work together to try and address this. I have spelled it out to DD's various key workers lots and lots of times but maybe putting it in writing and asking for a meeting will have more impact and at least I will feel like I've tried my best for DD

OP posts:
OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 22:45

I cant believe people honestly think a 3 year old is desperately nodding off on the carpet at 1pm. Most children that age fight sleep like mad and only nod off when you get them comfy for stories or drive them somewhere, and promote a sleep/rest/quiet time. even in nurseries! It's really not a big ask for them to encourage her out to the garden or to an active activity. I hope that she's not being kept in a room where there are children asleep around her & expected to stay quiet.

waterrat · 14/02/2022 22:45

My summer born daughter used to fall asleep on the carpet in reception. I remember the teacher telling me oh she was very tired thus week...yes because kids of 4 find a long day with no rest exhausting!

I totally sympathise op but even if she was at home with you she might end up napping. She will grow out of it is an annoying phase

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 22:46

gettingThemFromHereToThere that's a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of my issue.

OP posts:
GettingThemFromHereToThere · 14/02/2022 22:46

@HardbackWriter

I think quiet time after lunch is totally normal? But in any case nursery obviously aren't going to change their daily routine to suit one parent - tbh I'd be a bit alarmed if they did.
Normal? Not from my experience. But even so, normal doesn't indicate best practice.

The whole point of childcare, at any age, in any setting, is for it to be in the child's best interests.

They absolutely should be tailoring the day to suit all children. Thats not to say some kids can't have a story and nap if that's what the parents want, even though they're in preschool, but for those kids who don't usually need a nap, they should be given their coats and out they all go to the garden.

For those saying it's because nursery day is longer than preschool, that doesn't make sense if the child is napping at 1pm, when all children are still in childcare. I'd understand a child nodding off at 5pm but 1pm? Nah, they're filling up tummies then sitting them there with a soothing story. It's a recipe for naps and totally unnecessary.

GettingThemFromHereToThere · 14/02/2022 22:47

@Mehblehfeh

gettingThemFromHereToThere that's a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of my issue.
What is? I was agreeing with you, that they should discourage the nap. In what ways have I misunderstood your post?
mynameiscalypso · 14/02/2022 22:48

The only thing I'd add is that DS' nursery is currently on its knees after two years of Covid. They're doing an amazing job and I can't fault their care but it's noticeable that it's much less slick than when I visited pre-pandemic and it's all a little bit chaotic. I don't mind because DS loves it and the staff are brilliant with him but they're relying a lot on cover staff as so many people are isolating/off sick and it's a daily juggle to make sure they have the ratios right. I've not brought up the napping with them because, to be honest, they have enough on their plates.

IWasFunBeforeMum · 14/02/2022 22:49

Ours woke my son after 45 mins. If they're insisting on letting her sleep then agree but say they need to wake her after a set time..

Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 22:50

@OfstedOffred I am surprised you say this when you work with kids. I have seen kids nod off playing with the sand tray. In nurseries kids have been up early, get dropped off at 8 am-ish, and then a long day at nursery with lots of activities.
Lots of parents say their 5-year-old child when they start school comes home exhausted. But somehow all 2-year-olds are expected to be awake for more than 12 hours, 10 hours of that in a busy active environment. It is a very long day for tiny children. Of course some het exhausted and fall asleep.

OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 22:50

For those saying it's because nursery day is longer than preschool, that doesn't make sense if the child is napping at 1pm, when all children are still in childcare. I'd understand a child nodding off at 5pm but 1pm? Nah, they're filling up tummies then sitting them there with a soothing story. It's a recipe for naps and totally unnecessary.*

This. With spots on. OPs child hasnt fallen asleep until approaching 11pm at only 3 years old, she is losing hours of sleep. They should be bending over backwards to do what is best for the child which is for the child to be able to sleep at night.

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 22:50

Sorry GettingThemFromHereToThere I meant Ozanj. Apologies.

It's been a long evening!

OP posts:
2pinkginsplease · 14/02/2022 22:50

I work in a nursery and have the same situation with a few parents, our nursery has a policy that if a child falls asleep we aren’t allowed to wake them, they need to wake naturally.

It’s so hard in a full room of 3-5 yr olds to keep a child awake when they are really tired .

We have struggled to keep children awake from 11 am some mornings and some children lash out and just cry for the full day. It’s not fair on them or the other children.

BurntO · 14/02/2022 22:51

If this is someone you really want to push you need to pay for 121 childcare.

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 22:52

I really do understand it's hard for the staff. But I want to do what's best for DD.

OP posts:
Lucyccfc68 · 14/02/2022 22:52

The exact reason why my sons nursery never had story time straight after lunch.

Jmaxx44 · 14/02/2022 22:53

YANBU! You pay a substantial fee for nursery to look after your DD and you are definitely entitled to ask that they do their best to stick to the routine that works best for her. Plus 3 years is a perfectly acceptable age to stay awake all day. I 100% agree with previous posts saying the nursery staff probably quite like a few of the children nodding off as it gives them a chance to get breaks in etc. All the posters saying it’s cruel to keep her awake - you are her parent and know her best, if you think she can manage being awake all day, I’m sure you’re right! Anyone else’s opinion on whether or not shes ready to cut her nap is totally irrelevant!

cuno · 14/02/2022 22:53

@Mehblehfeh

I really do understand it's hard for the staff. But I want to do what's best for DD.
It's not that it's hard for the staff. It's that they could lose their jobs, there's rules and regulations they have to follow. It sounds like you have no idea what kind of red tape there is in jobs like this.
Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 22:54

@GettingThemFromHereToThere offering quiet time activity is best practice. You can rubbish that all you want, but you are wrong. Kids should be able to do an active activity if they want to. But some quiet time should be offered and reading a story is best practice quiet time.

And tiredness comes not just from one day, but day after day. If you work a very long day as a one-off, it will not tire you too much. If you do that 5 days a week you will be much more tired.

OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 22:54

Monopoly we see kids get tired at the end of the day/after 3pm. It's rare for them to be falling asleep after lunch, so heavily that they can't easily be kept awake by offering an activity or suggesting they go outside.

You will get an odd day when 1 is tired and absolutely can't be kept awake. If it happened with same child more than 2 or 3 days in a row after lunch it would be unusual.

Story time seated quietly on the carpet generally promotes drowsiness in many.

nokidshere · 14/02/2022 22:54

I really do understand it's hard for the staff. But I want to do what's best for DD.

If you want/need personalised care for your child you need a nanny. Most nurseries will try, but not adhere to completely, your wishes.

GettingThemFromHereToThere · 14/02/2022 22:54

@2pinkginsplease

I work in a nursery and have the same situation with a few parents, our nursery has a policy that if a child falls asleep we aren’t allowed to wake them, they need to wake naturally.

It’s so hard in a full room of 3-5 yr olds to keep a child awake when they are really tired .

We have struggled to keep children awake from 11 am some mornings and some children lash out and just cry for the full day. It’s not fair on them or the other children.

The problem is, those blanket policies don't work.

OPs child is going to be at close to 11pm because of a 45 min nap. That's crazy. And it's a vicious cycle because it causes her to be extra tired the next day. Hence nap. Hence late night and reduced sleep. Hence nap. Hence....

A few days of hard work, cutting the nap will likely benefit everyone; mum, nursery and most importantly her child who is currently sleep deprived.

If a nursery isn't willing to adjust its practice to suit the well-being of an individual child, then I'd argue it isn't child focused.

Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 22:56

@cuno exactly! Staff have to follow what OFSTED and their training say is best practice. And instead, so many parents on here just say staff are being lazy.
It is actually very easy to take kids outside and have them running about. That is not difficult at all and can be a lazy option.

GettingThemFromHereToThere · 14/02/2022 22:57

[quote Monopolyiscrap]@GettingThemFromHereToThere offering quiet time activity is best practice. You can rubbish that all you want, but you are wrong. Kids should be able to do an active activity if they want to. But some quiet time should be offered and reading a story is best practice quiet time.

And tiredness comes not just from one day, but day after day. If you work a very long day as a one-off, it will not tire you too much. If you do that 5 days a week you will be much more tired.[/quote]
Please can you explain why quiet time directly after lunch is best practice?

If you mean quite time/stories at one point in the day, then of course. But a morning slot or later in the afternoon would be more appropriate. Not directly after a meal when you're biologically more tired while digesting your lunch.

Tiredness also comes from going to sleep at 11pm.

nokidshere · 14/02/2022 22:57

If a nursery isn't willing to adjust its practice to suit the well-being of an individual child, then I'd argue it isn't child focused.

OP said that they call her name and try to keep her awake but if she doesn't respond they let her sleep. That's normal and best practice in most nurseries