Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who's being a dick here, me or the nursery?

290 replies

Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 21:34

DD is three and hasn't napped at home for over a year - her choice!bBut continued napping at nursery.

Bedtimes were getting significantly worse after nursery nap, and so six months ago I asked them to cut her nap. Nursery said it was hard to keep her awake when all the other kids had their naps and she was just really tired and falling asleep. Fair enough, I asked them to limit the nap instead, which sort of helped for a bit, but then they kept forgetting, and gradually it just stopped working anyway, and we went back to no sleeping till 10/11pm.

So, as DD was due to go up to the pre-school room where there was no naptime anyway, a couple of month's ago I said I really wanted the nap to stop as she wasn't sleeping till 10/11pm, and to prepare her for no nap in the new room. This was a battle with nursery who were not keen but eventually agreed. Was brilliant, bedtimes were quick and easy, DD getting a solid 11/12 hours a night.

She's now started in the pre-school room and...has been napping. Apparently they have story time after lunch and she drops off. I have asked them to keep her awake and explained loads of times that this means she's not sleeping till 10/11pm, and so is losing out on three hours sleep a night for the sake of 45 mins in the afternoon. She's then tired the next day, so even more likely to fall asleep, and so it goes on.

Nursery have basically said if she's falling asleep and calling her name doesn't wake her up, they won't do anything else to rouse her or keep her awake, and won't take her out to do something else at story time. I really do understand their reluctance to wake a tired kid, but it's totally detrimental to her wellbeing as it means she is getting much less sleep.

Would I be unreasonable to really push them on this? Or is this usual nursery policy?

OP posts:
blyn72 · 14/02/2022 22:28

She probably does get enough sleep, children vary in how much they need.

HAF1119 · 14/02/2022 22:28

I do think childcare settings should tailor towards your individual child, I have the opposite that mine needs a nap or we have an awful evening and won't eat, sleep, can be up until early hours, and have had to be fairly firm that he will say no to going in for a nap when out playing in the garden, but if brought in for a book and calm time will then go bed

Ask if one of the carers can do something else with her during story time as story time is a bit of a sleep enduser and that is what's setting it off, if your child is drawing/painting then falls asleep doing it fine, needs it, but I think the story time is causing it as it's what most of us do pre sleep for our children, and is affecting her wellbeing

Spudyoulikeit · 14/02/2022 22:29

It’s really hard and I had this problem with my DC. The thing is when you say you distract her in the car - the ratio of adult to child is so different. They may have 10 kids to look after so they just don’t have time to keep them awake if they’re dropping off. It doesn’t sound like they’re putting her down for a nap, but that she physically can’t stay awake? She’ll grow out of it x

nokidshere · 14/02/2022 22:29

The thing is, DD never just falls asleep at home. She doesn't fall asleep if I try and put her down for a nap! I bloody tired and tired to keep it when she turned two but she wasn't having it. So she's not the kind of child that just falls asleep in the day.

I can't tell you the number of parents I have had saying this in my 40yrs of childcare. I've had parents crying because they were so tired and their child wouldn't sleep. I've had parents tearing their hair out because their child wouldn't go to bed at night or nap for more than 20 mins in the daytime. They all have one thing in common. They don't do it for you but they happily do it for others.

I know children whose parents spend most of their evening trying to get them to bed only for the child to trot off and go straight to sleep if I'm the one doing bedtime. I've had babies whose parents are desperate for them to sleep for more than 40 mins at a time sleep at my home (without parent) for up to 3 hours.

I'm not saying this to blame, just to highlight that what your child does or doesn't do at home has little bearing on what they do elsewhere. In a nursery setting you don't have one to one care so it's much more difficult to manage. No one is doing this to spite you, you just need to try and find something that you can all work to or change childcare.

I'm sorry she is still awake, what time did you put her to bed? She's probably way overtired now.

TheApexOfMyLife · 14/02/2022 22:29

@Mehblehfeh

DD still awake and now upset as she can't sleep Sad
That’s the issue isn’t it? Then they get over tired and struggle even more to fall asleep :(

I’d be tempted to get her in the car so she falls asleep there and then out her in bed.

GettingThemFromHereToThere · 14/02/2022 22:29

I'd consider moving her to a proper preschool where naps just aren't something that feature.

Reading stories after lunch seems a bit silly, they're asking for full kids to feel sleepy.

I'd be asking if they can swap their day around, maybe outside play then a story later on or in the morning.

You're a paying customer, if they don't deliver what you want, then leave. I'd not be happy with 10/11pm bedtimes either!

Mama1980 · 14/02/2022 22:31

I think the issue probably is that they just can't physically prod/move her etc if she's falling asleep. If calling her and talking to her doesn't work they can't do much else.
Nursery will be warm and at story time/when it's quiet I'm assuming she just dozes off. In which case you just have to wait until she grows out of if I'm afraid.
Being at home is a very different environment.

Pishup · 14/02/2022 22:31

OFSTED would frown upon the nursery trying to wake a sleeping child. This is because of the law on the human rights of the child to rest.

Children get more worn out in childcare as they do so many activities and they're learning so much, hence why they need the nap.

We've all been there having to be up half the night with our kids. It's not fun and bloody exhausting but it's part and parcel of having kids.

OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 22:33

Yes tbh, I'd move her too. Ordinary preschools (the sort that operate for over 2.5s) dont have napping, their routines and staffing arent based around needing a few kids asleep so that staff get a break.

Isnt it funny how in those settings (I'm a trustee of one so there regularly) they almost never have children nodding off on the carpet. In ours it's a sure fire sign a child is coming down with something if they fall asleep during preschool.

HardbackWriter · 14/02/2022 22:33

It's not difficult at all to keep at 3 year old awake, you just avoid soothing things like reading stories or playing gentle music and encourage them outside.

Again, that doesn't work for every child - and in any case you think the nursery shouldn't have an afternoon story time in case it makes OP's child sleepy?

OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 22:35

It will do her more damage losing 3 hours sleep a night than it would the nursery making a little more effort to discourage sleep and the very late bedtime will become a damaging habit to break before school too.

Rivering · 14/02/2022 22:35

Kid needs its sleep, else it wouldn’t be .... sleeping.

Crimsonbow · 14/02/2022 22:36

I got my dc's nursery to stop him napping just after he turned two for the same reason... No problem.

HardbackWriter · 14/02/2022 22:36

But again if OP thinks the nursery is actively lying to her then she should obviously move her child to somewhere that she trusts the staff. I can't imagine sending my child somewhere that I just didn't believe them.

motherofthelittlescreamingone · 14/02/2022 22:36

OP, is there any scope for taking her for a walk before bed? Maybe it is the fact that they are a bit sedentary in the afternoons?

Catra · 14/02/2022 22:38

You are definitely not being unreasonable. Shortly after my daughter turned 3 I asked the nursery staff in the toddler room to drop her nap because it was impossible to get her to bed in the evenings - she'd literally stand and scream in her room for 2 hours straight whereas I'd never had issues getting her to sleep before.

The nursery immediately dropped the nap and instead let her play with the preschool children instead during the toddler's nap time. She never came home overtired, despite being on the go for 10.5 hours straight at nursery.

GettingThemFromHereToThere · 14/02/2022 22:38

@HardbackWriter

It's not difficult at all to keep at 3 year old awake, you just avoid soothing things like reading stories or playing gentle music and encourage them outside.

Again, that doesn't work for every child - and in any case you think the nursery shouldn't have an afternoon story time in case it makes OP's child sleepy?

Not directly after lunch. That's an obvious thing surely. Like going to the cinema after dinner, its a bad idea.

Get kids out in the garden in the fresh air.

At my kids preschool (dedicated preschool) they do story time later in the afternoon, before collection. Of the 30+ kids across the week, zero have naps.

My 3 year old will nap in the car if the journey is in the afternoon and longer than 15 mins. But they don't need a nap ordinarily, it's very rare for a 3 year old to need a nap. It's all about the routine.

HardbackWriter · 14/02/2022 22:39

I'd also note that 'proper preschools' often have children doing much shorter days than at a private nursery which might be why the children are less likely to fall asleep. But my nephew fell asleep at his 'proper preschool' all the time - and still does sometimes in reception, which the school definitely isn't encouraging!

Spudyoulikeit · 14/02/2022 22:40

@OfstedOffred

Normal preschools are 9-3 though. Private nurseries Can be 7-6 and some children still nap in reception.

Whybirdwhy · 14/02/2022 22:40

At my nursery they do try not to let kids nap. I know this because I like my child to nap there as she still needs it but when I collect her they always tell me she tried to sleep but they managed to keep her up by X Y or Z! And if she did fall asleep they woke her after 20 mins etc. So it is possible. Often the daily routine is set up to encourage a sleep, eg running round outside followed by a big meal and a story lying on a comfy cushion....who wouldn't drop off in those circs? I bloody would but I don't need a nap usually.
They don't let kids have a kip in reception even tho many of them probably would given the chance.

Ozanj · 14/02/2022 22:40

They can only encourage her not to take naps by keeping her busy. If she still wants to nap then best practice is to let her do it. Her wellbeing at the point the staff see it is the priority and not her going to bed at 10/11.

I want to point out that you’re going about this the wrong way. Your dd clearly needs the nap at nursery. So instead of focussing on cutting that out, focus on improving sleep hygiene so she goes to bed a bit earlier at home. Even 30mins earlier might result in a huge difference

OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 22:41

Agree with pp - story time (really any quiet sedentary soothing activity) right after lunch is a standard way to induce sleep- even adults often feel a little energy lull at that time.

A nursery choosing that time for stories/audiobooks etc is trying to encourage kids to sleep/rest. Our preschool the children go outside to play after lunch. Its very rare for children to fall asleep and we take from 2.5 up.

HardbackWriter · 14/02/2022 22:41

I think quiet time after lunch is totally normal? But in any case nursery obviously aren't going to change their daily routine to suit one parent - tbh I'd be a bit alarmed if they did.

Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 22:42

Some quiet time is the best practice. It is not good practice to keep kids busy and on the go from 8 am to 6 pm. It just isn't however much some parents insist their nurseries should be doing this.

GettingThemFromHereToThere · 14/02/2022 22:42

@Ozanj

They can only encourage her not to take naps by keeping her busy. If she still wants to nap then best practice is to let her do it. Her wellbeing at the point the staff see it is the priority and not her going to bed at 10/11.

I want to point out that you’re going about this the wrong way. Your dd clearly needs the nap at nursery. So instead of focussing on cutting that out, focus on improving sleep hygiene so she goes to bed a bit earlier at home. Even 30mins earlier might result in a huge difference

That's literally the whole point of this thread. OP wants her daughter to sleep earlier but she can't because she's napping at nursery.