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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not understand this about pronouns?

219 replies

HaveringWavering · 01/02/2022 22:11

When people state their pronouns they always say she/her, he/him or they/them.
Why the second part? Doesn’t everyone know that “her” goes with “she”, “him” goes with “he” etc?

Are there people who mix and match- she/him, they/her?

OP posts:

Original poster

HaveringWavering · 02/02/2022 21:31

@VladmirsPoutine

You didn't need to do the faux concern cum curiosity "To not understand". You could have just said you think it's a nonsense. This is mumsnet - you were never going to get any pushback for feigning ignorance about gender pronouns.

You talking to me? As I said earlier on, this was a purely grammatical question, not really aimed at questioning the idea of stating/choosing pronouns. I genuinely did not know if anyone mixed and matched. And if they did, I did wonder why, and how that worked? I was also curious about how the convention came about of expressing it as she/her etc.

FWIW my own theory is that simply putting the word (she) or (he) in brackets might not automatically tell people that it was intended to give direction about pronouns. (I know a Chinese man whose surname is “She” actually!) By ramming the point home by specifying TWO pronouns, you are making the purpose of the text in brackets much clearer.

OP posts:

couldhavenotcouldof22 · 02/02/2022 21:56

It's/fucking/bullshit

Angrymum22 · 02/02/2022 22:24

In the work place wouldn’t it be easier to use they/them universally to eradicate all sexism in the workplace.
Leaving the he/she/it for everywhere else.
This may solve the whole trans problem in the workplace as long as there is at least one female only loo the rest can be designate unisex to accommodate everyone. Problem solved.
It would be interesting how long it will take before men decide they need male only toilet.

PermanentTemporary · 03/02/2022 00:01

I agree @angrymum22 I think that's probably where things are going to go as time goes on. I think Mx will get a lot more common as well, if anyone uses titles at all.

FOJN · 03/02/2022 05:46

In the work place wouldn’t it be easier to use they/them universally to eradicate all sexism in the workplace.

People will still know who is female whatever their pronouns are. How do you think gender neutral pronouns will work to eradicate sexism?

babyjellyfish · 03/02/2022 07:03

@Angrymum22

In the work place wouldn’t it be easier to use they/them universally to eradicate all sexism in the workplace. Leaving the he/she/it for everywhere else. This may solve the whole trans problem in the workplace as long as there is at least one female only loo the rest can be designate unisex to accommodate everyone. Problem solved. It would be interesting how long it will take before men decide they need male only toilet.

I think that most women want female only toilets so this would likely result in lengthy queues (and never any toilet paper for that one) whilst the men had their pick.

babyjellyfish · 03/02/2022 07:04

@FOJN

In the work place wouldn’t it be easier to use they/them universally to eradicate all sexism in the workplace.

People will still know who is female whatever their pronouns are. How do you think gender neutral pronouns will work to eradicate sexism?

If the trans rights debate has taught us anything, it is that people who claim that there is no difference between women and trans women still magically know who to treat with respect and who to talk down to.

Tabasco007 · 03/02/2022 07:08

@Ionlydomassiveones

Thankfully I don’t know a single person in RL who would even humour this crap. I hope it fades away as the non-thinking woke dipshits that sign up to it grow up.

Couldn't agreed more, I can't want for this rubbish to end!

CMZ2018 · 03/02/2022 07:13

The whole thing is for attention seeking nutters

Sarcobaleno · 03/02/2022 07:15

@Ohpulltheotherone

Oh shit I always assumed it meant the person was fine with either when it said She/they Him/they

I didn’t think it meant a purposeful combination of both?

Surely not? Surely it means use either?

Oh honestly what????

It does. Seems others haven't grasped that.

Sarcobaleno · 03/02/2022 07:17

This thread reads like a Daily Mail comments board. Scary and funny all at the same time

Angrymum22 · 03/02/2022 07:23

Universal pronouns means we no longer have to “identify” semantically. We all know who is male and female regardless of how they present themselves. Gender becomes irrelevant in a they /them environment.
We don’t need to identify which sex we are since that is not fluid or changeable.
The trans community have derailed discrimination in the workplace and focus has been concentrated on issues that effect a very small number of people. This has taken away the focus from discrimination against 50% of the population.
By removing gender ( which to be fare in most workplaces is only the pronouns) in the workplace we can refocus on the real problems.
It’s a simple fix. Everyone is they or them, no need for all this formal identifying shit.
Unfortunately we have seen that some idiots have misread the instructions re gender/sex and applied non critical thinking in areas where only sex is applicable ( the idiots in the NHS)

babyjellyfish · 03/02/2022 07:27

@Angrymum22

Universal pronouns means we no longer have to “identify” semantically. We all know who is male and female regardless of how they present themselves. Gender becomes irrelevant in a they /them environment. We don’t need to identify which sex we are since that is not fluid or changeable. The trans community have derailed discrimination in the workplace and focus has been concentrated on issues that effect a very small number of people. This has taken away the focus from discrimination against 50% of the population. By removing gender ( which to be fare in most workplaces is only the pronouns) in the workplace we can refocus on the real problems. It’s a simple fix. Everyone is they or them, no need for all this formal identifying shit. Unfortunately we have seen that some idiots have misread the instructions re gender/sex and applied non critical thinking in areas where only sex is applicable ( the idiots in the NHS)

How does abolishing grammatical gender resolve issues such as who uses which toilets, whether Laurel Hubbard and Lia Thomas should compete as women in sport, whether Karen White should be in a women's prison or the reasons for the "gender pay gap".

Spoiler: it's not a gender pay gap, it's a sex pay gap, and it's largely because women have babies and men don't.

EBearhug · 03/02/2022 07:43

People will still know who is female whatever their pronouns are. How do you think gender neutral pronouns will work to eradicate sexism?

We don't always. I work with a lot of people from non-British cultures. If we haven't met face-to-face, and they don't use a profile picture, I often have no clue from their name if they are male or female. And mostly, it doesn't matter, as long as they can tell me the information I need about a piece of hardware n a datacentre local to them, or whatever it is I'm in touch with them for.

Whatwouldscullydo · 03/02/2022 08:14

Perhaps that's why they dont disclose.

Previous experience of what happens when you do.

Orangello · 03/02/2022 08:23

as long as there is at least one female only loo the rest can be designate unisex to accommodate everyone.

Ha LOL like this would ever happen. In woke places, the solution is to let men keep theirs, and change female loo to unisex.
twitter.com/bo_novak/status/851368692659212288?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E851368692659212288%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.feministcurrent.com%2F2017%2F04%2F12%2Finclusivity-priotrity-let-men-make-washrooms-gender-neutral-savetheladies%2F

EishetChayil · 03/02/2022 08:29

By removing gender ( which to be fare in most workplaces is only the pronouns) in the workplace we can refocus on the real problems.
It’s a simple fix. Everyone is they or them, no need for all this formal identifying shit.

This is truly dystopian.

FOJN · 03/02/2022 08:45

It’s a simple fix. Everyone is they or them, no need for all this formal identifying shit.

I have never formally identified as anything, I am a woman by virtue of being female. I'm not sure how changing language will affect reality, gender has no relevance to my life but my sex does. Why can't I be a woman, recognised as such and be treated equally? I think we have confused being equal with being the exactly same, it's possible to be equal but different.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 03/02/2022 09:23

It’s a simple fix. Everyone is they or them, no need for all this formal identifying shit

I have an empathy with PPs who might suspect that this would
—not be acceptable to those who want sexed pronouns (for affirmation or for some people who've gone through particular cancer treatments who may well find 'unsexing' quite upsetting)
—not encourage a workplace in which people are paid or treated equitably.

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