To not understand this about pronouns?

[HaveringWavering]

When people state their pronouns they always say she/her, he/him or they/them.
Why the second part? Doesn’t everyone know that “her” goes with “she”, “him” goes with “he” etc?

Are there people who mix and match- she/him, they/her?

@babyjellyfish great post. I studied French and was wondering about this. I love “wokisme” and “nothingburger”!

@SunshineArtist

I just use sex based pronouns for people, I don’t pander.

Good for you. Same.

[quote HaveringWavering]@babyjellyfish great post. I studied French and was wondering about this. I love “wokisme” and “nothingburger”![/quote]
Glad you liked it!

Also worth noting that with the verbs where you either have an extra E or you don't, depending on the gender of the speaker, you cannot hear the difference in spoken French as the extra E is silent.

So in reality the gender of people has very little impact on written French, and even less impact on spoken French. Ironically, the gender of common nouns is far more significant.

@donquixotedelamancha

I am so lucky to live in the North. I've never met someone who thinks they can dictate that others use heterodox grammar.

I really want to meet one, I'd have a lot of questions.

Me too. I am so looking forward to meeting them/him/her/it/those.

I did have one experience of a young lad I just met telling his name along with information that he is asexual, and that 'most people are surprised when I tell them that.'

I was indeed surprised myself. In my 50+ years on the planet I have never once announced myself with the words 'Hi, I am Jane and I am heterosexual.'

I've had to drill it into myself to use they/them for everyone. It's a very unnatural way of thinking and speaking

I expect there's bound to be a time I'll get told that "they/them" won't do for so-and-so because they insist on being called she, just to keep everyone on high alert.

I really don't think that an English-speaking female expecting to be routinely referred to as 'she' in the third person can in any way be thought of as unreasonable or being difficult/demanding.

I’m afraid I’m old enough to have been brought up with “who’s she? The cat’s mother?” - for those not as antique as me, it means that it’s rude to refer to an absent person by a pronoun instead of their name.

That's always struck me as really odd, though. I agree that it's rude not to initially use/acknowledge somebody's name and launch straight into 'she' or 'he' - but surely you wouldn't say "Jennifer called me yesterday and confirmed that Jennifer wanted all of those reporting to Jennifer to forward the initial draft to Jennifer and ask Jennifer to give Jennifer's approval before sending any emails on Jennifer's behalf" ?!

I did have one experience of a young lad I just met telling his name along with information that he is asexual, and that 'most people are surprised when I tell them that.'

Good lord, why does he imagine anyone cares about his sexuality? Particularly people he has just met.

That's always struck me as really odd, though. I agree that it's rude not to initially use/acknowledge somebody's name and launch straight into 'she' or 'he' - but surely you wouldn't say "Jennifer called me yesterday and confirmed that Jennifer wanted all of those reporting to Jennifer to forward the initial draft to Jennifer and ask Jennifer to give Jennifer's approval before sending any emails on Jennifer's behalf"?!

This is exactly what I do when talking about people such as Laurel Hubbard, Lia Thomas and Mridul Wadhwa, and I agree, it is unnatural and somewhat exhausting (but preferable to pretending the Emperor has very fine clothes).

but surely you wouldn't say "Jennifer called me yesterday and confirmed that Jennifer wanted all of those reporting to Jennifer to forward the initial draft to Jennifer and ask Jennifer to give Jennifer's approval before sending any emails on Jennifer's behalf" ?!

In an NHS meeting last week where somebody spoke about how they felt disengaged from meetings where nobody but them were stating their pronouns. They made a point of not using pronouns during the meeting on the grounds that they didn't want to assume people's preferred pronouns so that is almost exactly how they spoke about others in the meeting.

In an NHS meeting last week where somebody spoke about how they felt disengaged from meetings where nobody but them were stating their pronouns. They made a point of not using pronouns during the meeting on the grounds that they didn't want to assume people's preferred pronouns so that is almost exactly how they spoke about others in the meeting.

Jesus, when does the actual work get done?

@babyjellyfish

I did have one experience of a young lad I just met telling his name along with information that he is asexual, and that 'most people are surprised when I tell them that.'

Good lord, why does he imagine anyone cares about his sexuality? Particularly people he has just met.

Yes, it's so wearying.

Incidentally, he is now no longer a 'he' called 'John' but a 'she' called 'Desdemona.'

The pressures, particularly on younger people, from the Woke sex and gender identity culture are producing an extremely confused and mixed-up generation. I do feel for them.

A friend and I had exactly that conversation recently...we were catching up and friend said they bumped into X a mutual acquaintance who is now (very vocally on SM) non-binary. X isn't their new name BTW! Neither of us knew what pronouns to use to discuss this person. Until we both realised that between us it was compelled bollix and neither of us was going to judge the other. We reverted to She which was the pronoun we'd used for the previous 15 years we had all mutually known one another. X will never know this.

The pressures, particularly on younger people, from the Woke sex and gender identity culture are producing an extremely confused and mixed-up generation. I do feel for them.

I think it would be better to just ignore it and wait for them to grow up/move on to the next fad, rather than legislating for this stuff to replace material reality in law.

Is this what becoming an old fogey feels like? I'm about to turn 36.

@babyjellyfish

The pressures, particularly on younger people, from the Woke sex and gender identity culture are producing an extremely confused and mixed-up generation. I do feel for them.

I think it would be better to just ignore it and wait for them to grow up/move on to the next fad, rather than legislating for this stuff to replace material reality in law.

Is this what becoming an old fogey feels like? I'm about to turn 36.

I agree. Their psychological development is being hijacked. They are not being give the chance to blossom and grow and 'realise' themselves.

arargghhh *given

@MoreSmoresthansnores

I find it more shocking when I meet a young woman who insists on Mrs rather than first name... why... I dont get it at all. We all have labels we prefer for ourselves if we are honest. We don't all demand directives from HR about what we need to include on our email signatures to demonstrate those. (I'll have 'underpaid overqualified biological woman with caring responsibilities, don't call me son's-name-mum')

Love this. Can I have this label too please?

There needs to be a law stating people must demonstrate the correct use of there, they're, and their, before they're even allowed to think about buggering around with possessive pronouns 😡

He/She/it (they?) isn't enough options for the 26 (or is it more now?) genders to be uniquely identified

If we can just make up out own pronouns then i'll be:
my name is:User147
my pronouns are: U+0007/U+0008

just to be extra awkward (and subtle about my thoughts on it)

He/She/it (they?) isn't enough options for the 26 (or is it more now?) genders to be uniquely identified

It's >200 genders if I understand the uniqueness correctly. However, I don't think there are agreements about the pronouns and presentation for those and people's choice of presentation for each other those genders might influence the pronouns at any given moment.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

He/She/it (they?) isn't enough options for the 26 (or is it more now?) genders to be uniquely identified

It's >200 genders if I understand the uniqueness correctly. However, I don't think there are agreements about the pronouns and presentation for those and people's choice of presentation for each other those genders might influence the pronouns at any given moment.

Of course, the more genders they invent, the more obvious it becomes that things such as toilets, prisons and sports are in fact supposed to be segregated according to sex (of which there are two), not gender.

@AndSoFinally

There needs to be a law stating people must demonstrate the correct use of there, they're, and their, before they're even allowed to think about buggering around with possessive pronouns 😡

Could we also, while we are at it, maybe extend the law to one which requires an exam on the appropriate use of the reflexive pronoun? If we can wipe out misuse of “myself” and “yourself” then at least something positive will have become of this renewed focus on pronouns!

I would support both those laws!

just ignore it all and use name

@AndSoFinally

There needs to be a law stating people must demonstrate the correct use of there, they're, and their, before they're even allowed to think about buggering around with possessive pronouns 😡

And your and you're too obviously. Additionally if they also don't know the difference between bought and brought it should be permissible to beat them to death with a Collins Dictionary.

Still giggling about "mew". Dare I add it to my email signature, I wonder (I do have 5 cats)?