Page 4 | to find BIL behaviour strange around my child

SartresSoul · 29/01/2022 15:48

I don’t think I’d let him be anywhere near my child personally, he sounds very creepy.

Whatthefrigisthis · 29/01/2022 15:51

Always always go with your instincts .

They are there for a reason

birdglasspen · 29/01/2022 15:53

Is he weird in general? My husband, brothers, brother in laws would never act like this around any child.

PinkSyCo · 29/01/2022 15:53

Is he Italian or Mediterranean ? That is extremely common in my sisters Greeks Cypriot family things that would make me a bit shifty are perfectly normal and accepted in hers

I was going to ask this, but then I remembered that one of our Italian family friends who used to be very affectionate with me as a child tried it on with me when I was 18 ( he would have been around 60) Of course, as I was an adult, this doesn’t make him a pedophile but still…..

girlmom21 · 29/01/2022 15:54

People with ill intent towards children generally try not to arouse suspicion. This person is very openly behaving in a socially unacceptable way. To me, and this is just my opinion, he sounds like an odd person/poor social skills rather than a paedophile.

He's openly pushing boundaries but only slightly. He's doing this because then when someone challenges his behaviour everyone else says "oh that's just Dave - he's harmless."

Then he'll do something else a little bit weird and OP will eventually be made to feel like she's overreacting by challenging his behaviour.

Then everyone assumes he's just a good uncle and him and his wife are trusted to babysit...

See how this escalates?

Mummytobe93 · 29/01/2022 15:55

@NuffSaidSam

*Yes it's fine to give an opinion but you must be prepared for people to comment on any ridiculous things you say!

Paedophiles do not immediately start undressing children ffs! 🤢

Attitudes like this are why so many abused children are never believed*

Sure, comment away. That's how Mumsnet works.

People with ill intent towards children generally try not to arouse suspicion. This person is very openly behaving in a socially unacceptable way. To me, and this is just my opinion, he sounds like an odd person/poor social skills rather than a paedophile.

Believing that everyone is a paedophile is not the solution to children not being believed when they report abuse.

This ^

It’s like people seem to think that paedophiles live in canals and they drag random kids off the street to abuse them.

There’s hundreds of thousands of them in UK only and they live amongst us, in plain sight. They are lured to kids therefore they will seek contact with them - either though work or family.

If I’m not mistaken, most of the child abuse happens within family/close circle - how else would the perpetrator get access to the victim?

Mummytobe93 · 29/01/2022 15:56

I quoted the PP to reply to it, not too agree with it

MadameMinimes · 29/01/2022 16:06

@NuffSaidSam
Do you have any training or experience in this area? Because what you are saying runs counter to everything I have ever been told about grooming, and I work in education so get regular training.

It is incredibly common for abusers to groom families in this way. This kind of boundary pushing and normalising of behaviour that makes people uncomfortable is not unusual. There are far too many families left tormented by the fact that they did not pick up on behaviour like this for the red flag that it is. I once watched an interview with the family of Danielle Jones and it was heartbreaking. Assuming a person is safer because they are not trying to hide their overly close behaviour with a child is a mistake that can have horrific consequences.

Roseyleaf · 29/01/2022 16:08

You've asked/told him not to kiss your daughter. He's gone against your wishes.

Time to tell him firmly he needs to back off.

Don't worry about offending anyone or hurting their feelings. Your child's safety comes first.

NuffSaidSam · 29/01/2022 16:13

[quote MadameMinimes]@NuffSaidSam
Do you have any training or experience in this area? Because what you are saying runs counter to everything I have ever been told about grooming, and I work in education so get regular training.

It is incredibly common for abusers to groom families in this way. This kind of boundary pushing and normalising of behaviour that makes people uncomfortable is not unusual. There are far too many families left tormented by the fact that they did not pick up on behaviour like this for the red flag that it is. I once watched an interview with the family of Danielle Jones and it was heartbreaking. Assuming a person is safer because they are not trying to hide their overly close behaviour with a child is a mistake that can have horrific consequences.[/quote]
Yes.

But like I said, I'm just giving an opinion, not claiming any expertise.

I also said if the OP doesn't feel comfortable then she should keep her distance.

From the description I would say his behaviour goes well beyond a little bit of boundary pushing. Clearly, the OP is very uncomfortable with it.

saveforthat · 29/01/2022 16:14

You should definitely trust your instincts and if you have asked him to stop kissing her and he won't then don't let him even hold her but......kissing and nuzzling necks of babies/children is pretty normal in my family, the taking her into another room is odd.

GreenNewDealNow · 29/01/2022 16:19

VERY unsettling behaviour, keep her away from him, try to resist being made to feel in the wrong.

ChoiceMummy · 29/01/2022 16:44

@isthisodd283

feel free to tell me if you think i’m over anxious about this

basically my BIL is 40 - sister is 15 years younger. not sure if that matters but anyway.

i have a 10 month old daughter and my BIL is a bit odd around her and i don’t know if i’m just thinking too far into things.

my worry is basically he is the only person who will kiss her - i have asked a thousand times for him not to and he still does. he also does this thing where he nuzzles into her neck and kisses at her neck etc which makes me feel sick but don’t know if that’s me seeing things differently? also he will walk off into a room with her by himself. nobody else feels the need to have alone time with her so why does he? i follow him literally everywhere as i don’t like it. also he will not hand her back easily. if she’s crying or whinging or if someone else just wants to hold her he will outright blank them and pretend he can’t hear them and just keep a grip of her. it’s so weird. obviously i just grab her but like my mum for instance felt very put out by this

also yesterday we had a meal at my house just me my sister and a few friends (all women, no partners invited). he came into the house as he wanted to see my daughter specifically. wanted to tell him to fuck off it’s a girls night and everyone was just awkwardly waiting for him to get out. luckily dd just cried when he tried to hold her so he left quickly anyway.

but aibu to find him odd? i feel like i should trust my instincts and i would never let him or her babysit for this reason but don’t know if i’m being daft

@isthisodd283 I do think that you're reading what you want it to it, possibly you're a asking connections based on a 40yo dating your 25yo sister? Drawing conclusions that fancying someone younger means he's some sort of deviant.

Most of what you've said that he does, if state is normal, contextually. The nuzzling and kissing etc. And find it strange that your child is devoid of such affection.

My only caveat would be if this was a very new relationship for him to be so familiar with her, but even then it could well be explained by him being paternal and wanting children at that stage of his life...

Trust your instinct if you think he's a risk. But I wouldn't be saying anything out loud unless you want to cause a split in the family and a rift with your sister.

Lubeyboobyalt · 29/01/2022 16:53

let your sister go no contact with you then if she's like that - problem solved - you don't want a relationship with an enabler anyway

don't let your child be potentially groomed just for the sake of being polite

we live in a time now where we know this is how dodgy things start and however uncomfortable addressing it is, protecting your dd trumps that by a million miles

sorry if I sound a bit harsh but I just wish my mum had protected me a bit more instead of people pleasing

billy1966 · 29/01/2022 16:57

@notthatonethisone

If anyone ignored me with with regards to my baby, walked off with my baby and ignored requests to hand her back that person would never touch my baby again.

How did he get in your house?

He would not be welcome in my house ever again. End of.

Absolutely this.

And I would tell them without a single qualm.

Even the slightest feeling of off would be enough for me.

Walking off with your baby to be on his own?

Not a chance.

TheVanguardSix · 29/01/2022 17:02

It's so hard to say... he could be a paedo, he could be broody for a baby himself, he could be trying too hard to show your sister he's Great Dad material. It's an obstacle course of 'could be this or that or neither'.

But your gut is your gut and whether it's right or wrong, YOU don't feel comfortable, you have put boundaries in place that he is insistent on crossing, and for this reason alone, I'd be keeping contact to the barest minimum.

My own opinion is just that, my own. But having been sexually abused as a child and as the mother of a daughter who was sexually abused by my husband (DD's dad), I wouldn't let him near your baby.

My husband was obsessed with DD... he didn't abuse her as a baby but he was just so enamored of her to the point where, although abuse hadn't crossed my mind, I felt his intensity was overwhelming to DD. That intense attention and need to cuddle her all the time crossed over into sexual abuse when she was older.
I will not say your BIL is a predator or abuser. But personally, having lived to tell the tale and talking from my vantage point, your discomfort and alarm bells are appropriate, OP. Have you asked your mum or sister what their thoughts are... maybe just talk to your mum? Do your 'market research' here. Others may have noticed (don't be surprised if they haven't... so many are taken in by the Look At Me! I'm A Great Dad schtick). But you should start casually asking questions of those who've been observing. Have they noticed his intensity, his sort of 'obsessive' fascination with her?
Again, he could just be broody to the point of combusting, but it's a bit unusual.

littleburn · 29/01/2022 17:19

Whatever his intent OP, it's an issue of boundaries. You've told him not to kiss your daughter - he still does, you ask him to hand your daughter over - he ignores you or is very reluctant to do so.

It doesn't matter whether people on here think kissing/nuzzling a baby is ok or not. The problem is your BIL is establishing a dynamic where he does what he wants with your daughter and your clearly expressed views/boundaries as her mother don't matter. That is totally inappropriate and a red flag. How is that going to play out in a few years time, when your daughter is old enough to understand that mummy's silly rules don't apply when it comes to her DU?

autienotnaughty · 29/01/2022 19:35

The issue is you are not comfortable with it and in some level he's aware of that- you ask him to stop kissing he ignores you, you have to pointedly remove her etc. I think you need to be firmer and if he or sis gets offended then tough. Your baby, your rules.

As for why it's happening It could be that he's broody or overly affectionate or feels a close bond to her or possibly something more sinister. There's no real way to know. But it's for you to decide what's appropriate for your child.

Graphista · 29/01/2022 19:42

People with ill intent towards children generally try not to arouse suspicion.

Again I ask what is your knowledge/experience in this area?

Some can be quite brazen!

Whatwhywhenwhere · 29/01/2022 19:48

If you have asked him not to kiss her and he is then he is ignoring your wishes. That’s a red flag in itself. Some cultures to like kissing babies but generally British are more reserved and If they did it would be one formal peck on the cheek. So it is definitely not normal. Is he ignoring your wishes because he doesn’t listen to women or because his needs are more important?

Original poster

isthisodd283 · 29/01/2022 19:49

@PaganOfTheGoodTimes

To the PP who says it didn't sound like a paedophile- I'm afraid this is exactly how it starts. The BIL is sending a message to OP and her DD, that his relationship with dd is special, the rules don't apply to him, and what he needs is the most important thing. Paedophiles groom families long before they start the abuse.

OP - trust your instincts on this. From now on he is never with the baby alone - doesn't touch her, and I wouldn't send dd unsupervised for babysitting at your sisters house either, it would be too easy for her to need to pop out on an errand for BIL..

absolutely i don’t ever leave her alone with my sister or him - she has asked to babysit a few times and i’ve always just said no and made an excuse but next time i’m tempted to say why i’m not comfortable

OP posts:

Original poster

isthisodd283 · 29/01/2022 19:50

about a year. getting married in july after breaking up about 3 times in the last year. so whatever that counts as

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Original poster

isthisodd283 · 29/01/2022 20:02

thanks so much - have had a look at will be doing a background check under sarah’s law tomorrow as i have to phone it says

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MaybeSomeDay7 · 29/01/2022 20:06

[quote MadameMinimes]@NuffSaidSam
Do you have any training or experience in this area? Because what you are saying runs counter to everything I have ever been told about grooming, and I work in education so get regular training.

It is incredibly common for abusers to groom families in this way. This kind of boundary pushing and normalising of behaviour that makes people uncomfortable is not unusual. There are far too many families left tormented by the fact that they did not pick up on behaviour like this for the red flag that it is. I once watched an interview with the family of Danielle Jones and it was heartbreaking. Assuming a person is safer because they are not trying to hide their overly close behaviour with a child is a mistake that can have horrific consequences.[/quote]
Absolutely agree. These people think the rules don't apply and make sure everyone knows they're special.
Also think the age gap between him and your sister is relevant.
The thing is you can be being abused and still doubt yourself. It's even harder to see it happening to others. If your instincts are telling you it's wrong, it almost certainly is. The main thing is - your child - your rules. You set the boundaries. We're all under a huge social pressure to "be nice" in order to be accepted by the herd when we are vulnerable with young children. But fuck that, protect your clan and you will be the people who others want to be accepted by. Best of luck. Be strong. Your daughter will love you for it as she grows up.

Original poster

isthisodd283 · 29/01/2022 20:08

also those saying my child is devoid of affection because i don’t let just anyone kiss her - myself and her dad and her grandparents give her plenty of affection. non-blood related men i’ve known for approx one year that make me uncomfortable not kissing her does not mean she lacks love

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