To think you can't be 'Pro choice' if you agree in mandate vaccinations?

Haveyoubrushedyourteethtoday · 22/01/2022 15:16

What? You mean pro choice regarding pregnancy termination? What is the connection?

daisy46 · 22/01/2022 15:19

YANBU. bodily autonomy.

Flutterflybutterby · 22/01/2022 15:19

Wow, I've never considered this but I think you're right!

The connection js very obvious, is it not? The pro-choice movement is about having freedom of choice over our own bodies?

OP, you're going to get slated on here I expect, but I agree with you.

thenightsky · 22/01/2022 15:20

YANBU.

TheChip · 22/01/2022 15:21

Yanbu

TeenPlusCat · 22/01/2022 15:24

Depends what you mean by 'mandatory'. If literally the police are locking people up for not being vaccinated, regardless of other behaviour, then YANBU.
If you mean people in a pandemic are more restricted if they choose not to have a vaccine that is proven to reduce transmission and severity, then YABU. Ditto if people want to work with vulnerable people.

vodkaredbullgirl · 22/01/2022 15:25

Original poster

secular39 · 22/01/2022 15:25

Yes. Exactly. I have seen many posts citing that NHS workers are selfish/inconsiderate/ anti-vaxers if they do not get the vaccinations. Many of my friends who are working in the NHS are flabbergasted that some of their colleagues have been given dismal letters for not having the vaccine.

Mandating the vaccine is basically a fuck you to body autonomy. As a woman, no one can tell me what I should or should do not do with my body and I should not be penalised over my decisions.

Many Mumsnetters on here are pro choice (thankfully) but time and time again I'm seeing collectively views of people refusing to take the vaccine as 'scum' it's ridiculous.

OP posts:

goodwinter · 22/01/2022 15:28

I'm not sure it's that clear cut because I think there's a valid argument to be made about one's choice negatively impacting others - which doesn't apply to abortion in the same way. BUT on balance I am against mandatory vaccination and think yanbu

MagratsDanglyCharms21 · 22/01/2022 15:29

YABU to equate the two. A pregnancy affects you and your partner and NO-ONE else. Covid is a societal problem that affects you AND those around you.

That said, I've been pondering this today, a whilst it (IMO) was a reasonable decision (mandating) at the height of the pandemic with Alpha to Delta variants, it now no longer seems as justifiable with Omicron variant. I do now wonder whether the government would be better off having Covid vaccination as a requirement for new starters only, but with the option of revisiting this if another wave occurs that results in exponential growth of greater than the R rate of 1. I am hopeful that this actually will now not occur, so should allow those in the NHS who are not vaccinated to live out their careers without feeling bullied by the system, whilst ensuring the vaccinated workforce grows over time? It might be time for the government to find a compromise on this one!

gettingmylifetogether · 22/01/2022 15:29

No. YABU. I'm pro-choice when it comes to pregnancy, because whether or not to have a baby has a massive physical and mental impact on the woman. I will go to my grave defending female freedoms to decide whether or not they want to give birth or not.

Covid vaccines aren't just about you. They're about the people you come into contact with.

Deciding not to have a Covid vaccine is only acceptable if your medical history suggests it's a bad idea and/or you intend to live in a cave. If you want to participate in society and your doctor sees no reason why you can't have the vaccine, yes, you're being selfish.

VelvetChairGirl · 22/01/2022 15:30

YANBU

TeenPlusCat · 22/01/2022 15:31

secular Your view is all very well, but if one of my vulnerable parents had to go into hospital or a care home, should not the people caring have 'duty of care' to reduce their likelihood of passing covid onto them?

Mandatory vaccinations for certain jabs aren't a new thing.

The biggest issue in healthcare provision doing this is we don't have sufficient people doing some of the jobs anyway. So losing people due to them being vaccinated potentially is a bigger risk to quality of care than them being unvaccinated.

3scape · 22/01/2022 15:31

*mandatory.

Being anti Vax though.... That's not the same is it. So tired of this bs.

If you can get vaccinated and have a sense of responsibility towards your community/ society then you do and have done. It's fairly straightforward. If you can't you can't. , No big deal. It's the chunk of society that don't wish to support the needs of others who won't get vaccinated that means, unfortunately, this is becoming a situation of coercion. It wouldn't be necessary if enough people hadn't been allowed to spread the lies. Where I live are a HUGE number of anti vaxxers and from the local forum it's clear they think killing off the vulnerable is humanities best hope. Depressing. There you have it. The bodily autonomy bunch are apparently modern eugenicists.

Freecuthbert · 22/01/2022 15:33

There's other vaccines that are mandatory for NHS workers. Do you propose we scrap them all in favour of bodily autonomy? Or do you recognise that if you're working on the frontline in healthcare that it's actually probably best to have certain vaccines?

OneTC · 22/01/2022 15:34

I'm not sure it's that clear cut because I think there's a valid argument to be made about one's choice negatively impacting others - which doesn't apply to abortion in the same way. BUT on balance I am against mandatory vaccination and think yanbu

So if you could demonstrate or argue a negative impact to others you could apply the same thinking to abortion?

OhWhyNot · 22/01/2022 15:35

It’s been a nightmare having to cover for unvaccinated staff that are self isolating once again and having to consider their risk (while not changing their roles ) it puts more pressure on everyone else

They do still have a choice but not when choosing to work with vulnerable people as the impact isn’t on them it’s in everyone else too

The argument for mandatory for all adults is a different argument that is about body autonomy a job you choose to do isn’t

littlejalapeno · 22/01/2022 15:36

It’s a completely different issue.

The impact of being forced to carry a foetus to term and risk your life in child birth with no choice, vs. Everybody taking a vaccine that protects vulnerable people and reduces the risk of dying of a disease, are completely different scenarios with completely different implications.

You’re conflating them to muddy the waters and promote outrage and confusion.

I’m so over people being precious about the vaccine because of something they read on Facebook and then equating it with the struggle for woman's rights and autonomy. We’re so lucky to have modern medicine. It’s actually insulting to anyone with a uterus and especially insulting to rape survivors and those who have had to have abortions for medical necessity.

This post is a “fuck you” to common sense!

ThreeRingCircus · 22/01/2022 15:38

Personally I see them as two separate issues. I am pro choice regarding women having the freedom to choose to have an abortion if they feel that is the best thing for them/their family.

I don't think people who choose not to have the Covid vaccination should be prosecuted, but I think it's totally fair enough that front line NHS workers, care sector workers or anyone else coming into contact with vulnerable people should be required to have all necessary vaccinations mandated by their employer, including the Covid vaccinations. Certain vaccinations being a requirement of certain jobs is nothing new.

Porcupineintherough · 22/01/2022 15:38

Can you be pro choice if you dont support surrogacy? What about if you dont support people being able to sell a kidney?

ghostyslovesheets · 22/01/2022 15:39

This post is a “fuck you” to common sense

this! also I believe in choice over vaccines but those choices have consequences - just like any other choice - don;t have it by all means - your choice - but then expect to find access to some jobs/venues/countries barred to you.

Original poster

secular39 · 22/01/2022 15:39

@gettingmylifetogether

No. YABU. I'm pro-choice when it comes to pregnancy, because whether or not to have a baby has a massive physical and mental impact on the woman. I will go to my grave defending female freedoms to decide whether or not they want to give birth or not.

Covid vaccines aren't just about you. They're about the people you come into contact with.

Deciding not to have a Covid vaccine is only acceptable if your medical history suggests it's a bad idea and/or you intend to live in a cave. If you want to participate in society and your doctor sees no reason why you can't have the vaccine, yes, you're being selfish.

You can't be pro choice when it comes to specific circumstances and not be pro choice in certain situations. It does not work like that. Pro choice is primarily body autonomy.

Depending on upbringing, relationships, social circle and in certain countries. Women who have had abortions are at risk of alienation from certain communities, relationship breakdowns, and are basically shunned. The impact is more social/emotional and mental.

A few vaccinations are mandatory under the NHS but one; we are not at risk of losing our jobs if we do not receive those vaccines.

OP posts:

OhWhyNot · 22/01/2022 15:40

They have until the first week of February to have their first dose

Not sure how they have received dismissal letters yet it isn’t mandatory now

I don’t know anyone unless unvaccinated who isn’t supportive of there measures everyone is fed up with these whining self absorbed colleagues

TheChip · 22/01/2022 15:41

@OhWhyNot

They have until the first week of February to have their first dose

Not sure how they have received dismissal letters yet it isn’t mandatory now

I don’t know anyone unless unvaccinated who isn’t supportive of there measures everyone is fed up with these whining self absorbed colleagues

Self absorbed colleagues? These same colleagues who were clapped for, worshipped and called heroes not too long ago?

stuntbubbles · 22/01/2022 15:42