To think you can't be 'Pro choice' if you agree in mandate vaccinations?

[secular39]

There. I said it.

@TeenPlusCat

Depends what you mean by 'mandatory'. If literally the police are locking people up for not being vaccinated, regardless of other behaviour, then YANBU. If you mean people in a pandemic are more restricted if they choose not to have a vaccine that is proven to reduce transmission and severity, then YABU. Ditto if people want to work with vulnerable people.

This.

Yeah. Definitely not the same thing I’m afraid. I can see how you might consider a reasonable argument on the surface but more than a momentary consideration makes it clear it’s just not remotely comparable.

When the consequences on your choice have a negative effect on another living human being, you've reached the border where personal freedom and social responsibility intersect.

According to the pro life people that's exactly why abortion should be illegal. Because the embryo / fetus is a life being squashed out. The pro-life brigade would also say that abortion is also very upsetting to the pregnant woman there is a high risk of chronic upset, even PTSD. Remember Norma McCorvey is a poster-girl for the pro-life campaign. So abortion is bad for the pregnant person, and bad for others (is their argument).

YABU. You’re talking about two totally different things Nice try though.

I would like to vote but no option?

The pro-life campaigners talk about other health harms to the woman who has the abortion, damage to her body or future fertility or cancer risks.

They also talk about moral harm to human conscience, morality, and how this harms all of society. Plus people who feel upset about the fact the abortion happened (such as relatives who might object to the abortion happening). This is why abortion is harmful to others, not just a private procedure (they argue).

If the logic is you must have vaccine to protect others, that protecting others is paramount , then you shouldn't have abortion because abortion damages others. It's the same general justification.

@YeOldeTrout

When the consequences on your choice have a negative effect on another living human being, you've reached the border where personal freedom and social responsibility intersect.

According to the pro life people that's exactly why abortion should be illegal. Because the embryo / fetus is a life being squashed out. The pro-life brigade would also say that abortion is also very upsetting to the pregnant woman there is a high risk of chronic upset, even PTSD. Remember Norma McCorvey is a poster-girl for the pro-life campaign. So abortion is bad for the pregnant person, and bad for others (is their argument).

The issue with the abortion argument posited by the forced birth brigade is that they consider the foetus to be a living human being with equal personhood to the woman carrying it. Once you shoot that one down, their whole argument comes down with it.

The evidence that abortion is damaging to a woman's mental health on a large scale has been largely debunked. So it's a bollocks argument whichever way you turn it.

YABU. I agree with PP’s who take a nuanced view of choice. OP, you are trying to make a new definition of ‘pro choice’.

Probably women would benefit from sticking with the one we’ve got and those who want to fight this battle should do so on other grounds.

My lovely neighbour contracted COVID in hospital and died, in the dark days before the vaccine, so I am all for the regulation for nonexempt NHS workers.

@littlejalapeno

It’s a completely different issue.

The impact of being forced to carry a foetus to term and risk your life in child birth with no choice, vs. Everybody taking a vaccine that protects vulnerable people and reduces the risk of dying of a disease, are completely different scenarios with completely different implications.

You’re conflating them to muddy the waters and promote outrage and confusion.

I’m so over people being precious about the vaccine because of something they read on Facebook and then equating it with the struggle for woman's rights and autonomy. We’re so lucky to have modern medicine. It’s actually insulting to anyone with a uterus and especially insulting to rape survivors and those who have had to have abortions for medical necessity.

This post is a “fuck you” to common sense!

Sorry op, I agree.

I’m pro choice and opposed to mandatory vaccination but I think they are two clear and distinct issues with very different implications.

@secular39

There. I said it.

i just think the difference is vaccinations keep not just your safe but other people, and people who aren't vaccinated can harm others, but people who get an abortion aren't harming others

Pro lifers want to make abortion illegal. Punishable by law. A criminal act. Unless I’m mistaken the vaccine mandate doesn’t make it illegal for a person to be unvaccinated. ‘Pro choice’ is a smoke and mirrors argument. That’s not to say there aren’t potentially good arguments against it just that I don’t believe that this one is it.

I dont see the connection.

One decision is just about the woman and her life.

One decision is about the woman and her life and all the people she may infect with a virus that could kill them

Plus mandated vaccinations isnt forcing people to have vaccinations, its usually done though a 'if you want to mix with others in a school/ cinema/ restaurant then you must... so not not really the same

I totally agree and have thought this from the start.

@WhateverHappenedToFayWray

There are exemptions for those with a medical reason.

Yes, I understand that but what if you wanted to travel, would you still be exempt? Would they allow you to travel if you had medical reason for not being vaccinated?

Yes.

“You’re pro choice? A-ha! Then you must support my right to smoke cigarettes in pubs and restaurants. My body my choice!”

This thread is dumb.

In regards to the covid vaccine I can see both pros and cons to it being mandatory.
I myself chose to have my vaccines before there was talk about them becoming mandatory for nhs workers.

I am pro choice and hate to see people being forced to have a vaccine or lose their job because of their choice, for context I’m a second year student paramedic and have seen multiple people on my course being forced to either have the vaccine or leave the course if they don’t.

They have all had valid reasons to why they don’t want it mostly due to the lack of evidence of the long term affects including potential infertility.

But I also see why it is being made mandatory as we are closely working with a lot of vulnerable and very unwell patients who could become extremely I’ll or die from catching covid from someone who is there to help and make them better.

I don’t get the hysteria about this vaccine. My husband is a doctor, he has hepatitis jabs each year which are mandatory too, because obviously it’s not fair to pass on a condition like that to patients. Are you ok with doctors passing on hepatitis? You must be, being ‘pro choice’? Have we anything to say about the choice of patients whilst putting their trust in medics, that the medics should have a duty of care in protecting their patients choice to stay well?

There’s no difference between this and the other mandatory vaccinations necessary for medics.

Incidentally my husband isn’t supportive of the mandatory vaccinations but this is to do with not losing staff at a time when the NHS most needs them. It’s nothing to do with the safety of the vaccine or the need to have it.

As someone who has treated many Covid patients some of whom have died he’s got very limited understanding of why someone wants to have the freedom to get critically ill.

Yes, I agree with you op. I'm pro choice and the concept of mandatory vaccinations makes me very uncomfortable.

@Broblem

“You’re pro choice? A-ha! Then you must support my right to smoke cigarettes in pubs and restaurants. My body my choice!”

This thread is dumb.

True

The two issues are entirely separate.

So, we should have the right to abortion

The right not to be forced into being vaccinated

What about the right to die? Its something many people want they can do it in other countries why can't we do that here?

What about the right to kill someone? A murderer obviously not just anyone on the streets but why not?

Why not mix every single right that people want in a big ball under PRO-CHOICE just to prove a point that no one is even sure of

Has anyone asked WHY? why don't they want the vaccine none of that "untested bollocks" because they modified one they were already working on its not like they started from scratch they literally turned a Victoria sponge into chocolate cake yes its a bit rough around the edges not as refined as we would normally get but still a working vaccine it the timeline is fantastic work why do all these people who work for the NHS not want to take it

I agree with you OP. And I've said it before.

You can't go around supporting women for aborting babies (basically killing another human life) because it's 'their body and their choice' and then in the next breath forcibly inject people with a concoction of drugs into their body.

Problem is though, women want it all!

Yanbu

I have always been ardently pro choice, my stance doesn't waver with regards to the Covid vaccine.

It's a very interesting way to look at it actually.

I've got to be honest though in my circle of family and friends, no-one is pro mandatory vaccination (most, who can be, are vaccinated)