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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think you can't be 'Pro choice' if you agree in mandate vaccinations?

362 replies

secular39 · 22/01/2022 15:13

There. I said it.

OP posts:
JigglyPiggly · 22/01/2022 15:43

You can have the stupidest post of the day award

How you've even tried to conflate the two is mind boggling

Other peoples pregnancies don't impact the general populations health and well-being

Original poster
secular39 · 22/01/2022 15:43

Not sure how they have received dismissal letters yet it isn’t mandatory now

Yes, those who have not declared the vaccine status or have shared that they are not going to take the vaccines (the latter) have received dismal letters from their managers.

OP posts:
PerkingFaintly · 22/01/2022 15:43

You can't be pro choice when it comes to specific circumstances and not be pro choice in certain situations.

I can and I am.

HTH.

TeenPlusCat · 22/01/2022 15:44

A few vaccinations are mandatory under the NHS but one; we are not at risk of losing our jobs if we do not receive those vaccines.

If vaccinations are mandatory, presumably you wouldn't have been given the job in the first place if you hadn't had them. There has been ample time to get vaccinated by now.

(To be honest I have partly wondered whether making them mandatory was a 'stick' approach to get levels up (similarly vaccine passports), and then when high enough the requirement would be dropped.)

Original poster
secular39 · 22/01/2022 15:44

@PerkingFaintly

You can't be pro choice when it comes to specific circumstances and not be pro choice in certain situations.

I can and I am.

HTH.

Then your not pro choice Wink
OP posts:
Awalkintime · 22/01/2022 15:45

Surely you can't then say you are pro choice about vaccines now if you never said a peep about mandates before covid.

TeenPlusCat · 22/01/2022 15:46

secular You do have a choice though, in theory at least. The practice I accept might well be harder. Get vaccinated or move jobs?

Snowiscold · 22/01/2022 15:46

No-one is telling you what you can or cannot put in your body, though. Interested in the wording of the dismal letter, though.

Original poster
secular39 · 22/01/2022 15:46

@TeenPlusCat

A few vaccinations are mandatory under the NHS but one; we are not at risk of losing our jobs if we do not receive those vaccines.

If vaccinations are mandatory, presumably you wouldn't have been given the job in the first place if you hadn't had them. There has been ample time to get vaccinated by now.

(To be honest I have partly wondered whether making them mandatory was a 'stick' approach to get levels up (similarly vaccine passports), and then when high enough the requirement would be dropped.)

Not necessarily, you typically apply, interview, get the job (I have applied to NHS jobs in the past and no where did it ask whether I had received certain vaccinations) and then Occupational Health Contact you. If you don't book onto Occupational Health, the most likely scenario is that your manager will not be hounding you down to go to OH.
OP posts:
goodwinter · 22/01/2022 15:47

@OneTC

I'm not sure it's that clear cut because I think there's a valid argument to be made about one's choice negatively impacting others - which doesn't apply to abortion in the same way. BUT on balance I am against mandatory vaccination and think yanbu

So if you could demonstrate or argue a negative impact to others you could apply the same thinking to abortion?

You mean like if getting an abortion could put other people's lives at risk? Possibly, I guess, but of course it doesn't.

(Although thinking about it - I suppose that's why people who ascribe personhood to foetuses are anti-abortion. So I suppose many people do in fact apply that same thinking to abortion, as much as I disagree with it)

UthredofBattenberg · 22/01/2022 15:47

Well, pregnancy isnt infectious, or killi
or incapacitating other people. So someones choice to terminate or continue a pregnancy isnt a parallel you can draw in being vaccinated IMHO

GrumpyPanda · 22/01/2022 15:48

Using more precise language might help. "Selfishness" is a sloppy concept. The fact of the matter is that a global pandemic is a collective action problem, in which individual actions - restricting one's interactions, masking, getting vaxxed - contribute to the public good of containing the pandemic. Antivaxxers are freeriding on these efforts - they are benefitting from the public good while refusing to contribute to it. A meaningful comparison would be crossing a picket line while still happily accepting wage raises as a result of the sacrifices made by others.

In contrast, forced birtherism/opposing forced birtherism doesn't involve collective goods, it's all about a multitude of individual conflicts and decisions, unless you're talking about legislation in and of itself. I suppose the only remote parallel would be if you'd spent your whole life campaigning for forced birth only then to turn around and avail yourself of the option to have a termination for yourself or your partner.

PerkingFaintly · 22/01/2022 15:48

And if you're handing out badges saying "I'm pro-choice", then you can refuse to give me one.

As I don't care about your badge, that doesn't bother me.

Meanwhile, I will continue to defend legislation to allow women to terminate pregnancies.

gettingmylifetogether · 22/01/2022 15:48

@PerkingFaintly

You can't be pro choice when it comes to specific circumstances and not be pro choice in certain situations.

I can and I am.

HTH.

Snap.

@secular39, I'm afraid you don't get to decide that just because I think Covid vaccines should be rolled to out to everyone who can and should get one that I want to force women into having unwanted pregnancies. I think they're two very separate and different situations.

If a woman doesn't choose to proceed with a pregnancy, it has no impact on my life. If a woman gives me Covid, it potentially kills me and/or someone I then pass it onto.

It's all about how our actions impact on those around us. A novel concept, I know, but when I got my Covid vaccines, I wasn't thinking about my own safety, I was thinking about my CEV friends and family. If you want to participate in society, you have to care about society.

OhWhyNot · 22/01/2022 15:49

There have been countless emails informing us and reminding us how can someone be dismissed when it’s not actually in place yet

Original poster
secular39 · 22/01/2022 15:50

You can still have the vaccine and pass on Covid....

You can still have the vaccine and have Covid....

OP posts:
PerkingFaintly · 22/01/2022 15:51

Also, I grew out of falling for this sort of wordplay in my early 20s. It certainly doesn't work on me now.

Blame the dodgy evangelists who attempted to inform me that because (at the time) I believed there could be more than the material world, then OBVIOUSLY I believed in God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and the resurrection and life everlasting.

Yeah. Nah.

gettingmylifetogether · 22/01/2022 15:51

@secular39

You can still have the vaccine and pass on Covid....

You can still have the vaccine and have Covid....

Well, yes. Hardly anything is 100% effective. But you're doing your level best to reduce the odds by getting vaccinated, no?
PerkingFaintly · 22/01/2022 15:53

Clearly the "forced teams" technique is still alive and well among the social media spammers...

JigglyPiggly · 22/01/2022 15:53

@secular39

You can still have the vaccine and pass on Covid....

You can still have the vaccine and have Covid....

And?

Do you honestly not understand what reduction of risk means?

You are less likely to get covid if vaccinated

You are then also less likely to pass it on if you've been vaccinated

Clearly you're just uneducated

OhWhyNot · 22/01/2022 15:53

Yes we know all that the vaccine does not keep us completely immune

But we also know that we have to manage risk and we are having to manage risk of patients/unvaccinated staff

We shouldn’t be having to do that it puts pressure in the rest of staff

Tal45 · 22/01/2022 15:53

Of course you can be pro choice about abortion but believe vaccines should be mandatory in certain jobs with vulnerable people - to suggest otherwise is just absurd. The two are completely unrelated.

This is literally the meaning of prochoice, cut and pasted from the Oxford dictionary -

advocating the legal right of a woman to choose whether or not she will have an abortion.

Absolutely no mention of body autonomy or vaccinations.

BritWifeInUSA · 22/01/2022 15:54

That’s exactly why I’m anti-mandate. Because I’m pro-choice. For every body. Not just pregnant bodies. Not just female bodies. Every single body should have the right to decide what goes in and what can be taken out.

JigglyPiggly · 22/01/2022 15:55

@BritWifeInUSA

That’s exactly why I’m anti-mandate. Because I’m pro-choice. For every body. Not just pregnant bodies. Not just female bodies. Every single body should have the right to decide what goes in and what can be taken out.
And they can

No one is forcing people to get a vaccine

There are already plenty of vaccines health care workers need to be able to do their job

titchy · 22/01/2022 15:56

Mandating vaccination for NHS workers is not the same as mandating full stop. No nurse is going to be taken to court for refusing the vaccine.

So you are being pretty stupid to think they're the same.