To think you can't be 'Pro choice' if you agree in mandate vaccinations?

[secular39]

There. I said it.

Hold up a minute you’re (wrongly) conflating ‘being pro-choice’ with ‘being protected from the consequences of those choices’ which is why your argument doesn’t make sense. No one is forcing anyone to be vaccinated, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

YABU. It's not just about you. Transmission is reduced and viral loads are reduced if you vaccinated. You are less likely to catch COVID, less likely to pass it on and less likely to get seriously ill and use up NHS resources at everyone's expense if you are vaccinated.

Your pregancy, your affair, although I don't mind contributing to supporting your child via taxation if you go ahead. You spreading an infectious novel virus which can cause long-term health problems and kill, GTFO.

Get vaccinated.

@ghostyslovesheets

This post is a “fuck you” to common sense

this! also I believe in choice over vaccines but those choices have consequences - just like any other choice - don;t have it by all means - your choice - but then expect to find access to some jobs/venues/countries barred to you.

I assume you will have no problem if an employer refuses to employ the vaccinated over blood clot fears?

I'll keep my mask on thanks rather then travel around the world like a arrogant sod thinking I'm immune because I got jabbed.

2 separate issues yabu

A few vaccinations are mandatory under the NHS but one; we are not at risk of losing our jobs if we do not receive those vaccines.

If I choose to travel to certain countries I need a yellow fever vaccination for example. If I want to be extra safe I can have the hepatitis ones and diphtheria etc.

Polio and the mmr diseases have horrible consequences. In fact if a pregnant person comes into contact with rubella (or someone who has chosen not to have a rubella vaccine), it can cause severe damage to their foetus who will have life long struggles they wouldn’t have had otherwise. The unvaccinated person committed that violence on them. Likewise NHS vaccine refusers are happy to potentially damage vulnerable people. If you’re a doctor/nurse/care worker and believe that first we do no harm, why wouldn’t you get a vaccine that limits the harm you can do?

YABU.

Vaccine mandates are not in place for every aspect of people's lives. They may limit what you are able to do, where you are able to go, in order to reduce the risk to others because of your personal choice. If, as someone earlier said, the government was holding people down and injecting them, then you'd have a point. It's about protecting other people who are vulnerable to severe illness or death.

Abortion does not carry that risk to others and therefore not comparable.

@secular39

Yes. Exactly. I have seen many posts citing that NHS workers are selfish/inconsiderate/ anti-vaxers if they do not get the vaccinations. Many of my friends who are working in the NHS are flabbergasted that some of their colleagues have been given dismal letters for not having the vaccine.

Mandating the vaccine is basically a fuck you to body autonomy. As a woman, no one can tell me what I should or should do not do with my body and I should not be penalised over my decisions.

Many Mumsnetters on here are pro choice (thankfully) but time and time again I'm seeing collectively views of people refusing to take the vaccine as 'scum' it's ridiculous.

You still have body autonomy - no one is being forced to have the vaccine.

However the new legislation means you cannot work in a front line, patient facing role without having had the vaccine.

Decisions have consequences.

YABU - the 2 are not the same.

@BritWifeInUSA

That’s exactly why I’m anti-mandate. Because I’m pro-choice. For every body. Not just pregnant bodies. Not just female bodies. Every single body should have the right to decide what goes in and what can be taken out.

Exactly.

It's two different issues. Lumping things together like this is an incredibly weak argument.

jennywasafriendofmrbrightside
Completely agree - no one is being forced. Everyone still has a choice. They just don't like the choices on offer.

Blatant false equivalence. You're going to have to do better than that.

@secular39 so you won’t be vaccinating your children with the mmr either then?

Every single body should have the right to decide what goes in and what can be taken out.

Every single body does have the right to decide that. There are no compulsory vaccines.

So if I’m pro mandatory seatbelts, I can’t be pro life??

I’m not pro mandatory vaccines, in general, but you are talking inflammatory bullshit OP. And the world really doesn’t need more of that.

[quote littlejalapeno]@secular39 so you won’t be vaccinating your children with the mmr either then?[/quote]
An AS shows a fair few "interesting" ideas regarding health and medicine. As well as comments along the lines of "well, just hope your (sic) not in that percentage then" said to posters who had received the AZ vaccine and were fine and not dead from blood clots. Which was clearly quite a disappointment to our tricoteuse.

You can't be pro choice when it comes to specific circumstances and not be pro choice in certain situations.

You have set up the link between the two and you have created your own definition of "pro choice". We don't all have to sign up to your link or your definition. (I don't)

My definition is, "advocating the legal right of a woman to choose whether or not she will have an abortion."

I don't see that much overlap with that and my opinion on whether unvaccinated people should be allowed to potentially spread infection to vulnerable people (especially those in jobs that have traditionally had other mandatory vaccines).

@BritWifeInUSA so you believe in people being able to buy and sell human organs?

That’s exactly why I’m anti-mandate. Because I’m pro-choice. For every body. Not just pregnant bodies. Not just female bodies. Every single body should have the right to decide what goes in and what can be taken out.

Which everyone does have. Even if they work for the NHS.

@DoubleDeckerSwimmer

You can't be pro choice when it comes to specific circumstances and not be pro choice in certain situations.

You have set up the link between the two and you have created your own definition of "pro choice". We don't all have to sign up to your link or your definition. (I don't)

My definition is, "advocating the legal right of a woman to choose whether or not she will have an abortion."

I don't see that much overlap with that and my opinion on whether unvaccinated people should be allowed to potentially spread infection to vulnerable people (especially those in jobs that have traditionally had other mandatory vaccines).

To be clear, I am - I think - uncomfortable with mandatory vaccinations.

I am not uncomfortable with preventing people who have not had certain vaccinations from being in certain situations where the others involved have no choice and would be at increased risk.

I can believe that at the same time as being pro-choice. Indeed, I think both positions have the protection of the vulnerable at heart.

I can also believe that at the same time as recognising the vaccine is not 100% effective.

If you belive drink driving should be illegal then you're clearly not pro choice.

It doesn't matter if the drunk driver impacts others as long as they are doing what they want.

That's how stupid you sound op.

No one is forcing NHS workers to have the vaccine. But they are practically being blackmailed to get the vaccine or risk losing their jobs.

I will happily get the vaccine. But I have a family history of blood clots, recently diagnose lost a very close relative to a blood clot and have for many years been recommended by DRs to not get medication that may be at risk for triggering a blood clot. Since the vaccine came into play, I have had numerous appointments with my GP voicing my concerns as I wanted to get vaccine. All said it was fine and then AstraZeneca was scrapped. I'm currently going through investigations whether I have the blood clot disorder as my mum. But keep getting "oh it's fine" and just bugger off. I'm not going to "sacrifice" my health for no one.

[quote littlejalapeno]@secular39 so you won’t be vaccinating your children with the mmr either then?[/quote]
What? My kids have had the Mmr.

Well they aren't the same and you should be able to understand the difference. No one is being forced to have the vaccine, simply being told it is a requirement of their job. The vaccine is to add a barrier of protection from a virus that affects everyone. Pregnancy and abortion only affect the pregnant woman. I'm still pro choice if I believe a job has the right to ask individuals to get the vaccine to continue their role, because they have the right to say no and leave. If they were saying they would hold them down and force them to have it with no way to say no, then I would be against that. If it was like that, then you could compare it to abortion, but it's not so you can't.

Yanbu

@PAFMO the point is that children are not afforded the autonomy to decide what vaccines they put in their body, because the benefit to society outweighs the cost to their autonomy, so the OPs argument for choice is impossible to implement and inconsistent.